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P3024 code after reconditioning battery pack

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by cgates30, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    Back in November/December I discharge/charge-cycled each module in my battery pack 3+ times after replacing 3 bad modules. I didn't get to reassemble everything and drive the car until the holidays. On short trips around town, everything seemed okay, but on longer trips (limited data here, but say 40-45 miles) I got the red triangle and some other lights (see photo). I read the code as P3024 which from what I find means Battery Block 14 Becomes Weak. I can clear the code and the car is happy until the next trip... Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks photo (1).jpg
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Looking at your odometer at 151k miles, you probably are in a NON-CARB state.....

    Nothing else I can add to this thread, sorry.
     
  3. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    I'm in a CARB state, Oregon. The dealer wanted nothing to do with me short of selling me a new battery, etc.
     
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    What mileage did you have when you brought it into the dealer in November? I personally would try different dealers to see which one would lend a helping hand. I mean talk about borderline.....
     
  5. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    The car hasn't been driven much since the battery failed. 151K when I took it in.
     
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If your car is in good running condition, with minimal problems, I know of someone that just had their battery replaced by Toyota 3 months ago in CA. He just totaled his car and is willing to part with the replacement battery (with receipt) for $800. I'm sure he'll probably work with if you show genuine interest in buying the battery.

    He's in Anaheim CA
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Sounds like you have yet another failed battery module which will need to be replaced. At this point you might decide it is better to obtain a new battery or a used battery from a newer model year/lower mileage donor.
     
  8. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    This "whack-a-mole" situation was mentioned on the Luscious Garage blog concerning battery failure. They opted not to pursue reconditioning and cell swapping as there was a likelihood of additional cell failure not too far down the road. The manufacturing tolerances are apparently quite close on the modules, so the number of miles that you can get from a partial rebuild is still a question.

    How did #14 look when you were doing the cycle testing? Perhaps future rebuilders need to be more suspicious of somewhat marginal cells.
     
  9. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    also when you cycle every cell after the other then you already get a disbalance...
    by the time you are at module 28 the first module you cycled is already at a differend soc.
     
  10. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    This is true when using few chargers, although most use several chargers at a time. And then there is a step which connects all modules together for final balancing. But I would hope that the self discharge rate of the NiMH cells is not so high as to create any concern here. If the rate is that high, then that alone would be sufficient evidence that the cells were close to end of life and not worth further work IMHO, if longevity was being sought.
     
  11. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    I have 2 HiTec x4 chargers, so I was cycling 8 modules at a time. I think all modules went through their last cycle within 7-10 days of each other.

    The capacities of all modules were at/above 5200 mAh after the third Dis/Ch cycle. Some modules got more cycles to get their capacity to 5200. Some modules are above 6000 mAh discharge capacity. After the cycles, I tied all of the positive terminals together and all of the negative terminals together to equalize the voltage of all modules.
     
  12. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    It sounds like you did everything that is recommended. Module 14 is in the middle of the pack, where heat is the highest. It is also a good idea to shuffle the modules so that those which were in the middle are moved out to the edge. However, this ought not be much of a problem in what I assume is presently cool weather conditions. It would be valuable to have the internal resistances readout, as from the VCI, or Torque.
     
  13. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    I never measured internal resistance, so that's something I could attempt to do. I'm not sure that the error is about module 14 (although, it could be). Seems like the list of codes I found went up to "block 14". I was thinking the blocks could two modules together.

    I'm not familiar with VCI or Torque. Are those tools to use to measure properties of the battery pack?
     
  14. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    Yes, that's right, pairs of modules in 14 blocks. So that would make it at the end of the pack. Cancel my previous, heh. Get the "mini VCI" from eBay, and it will give you everything you want to know about the battery parameters. Runs on an old XP laptop.

    Torque is an Android app, q.v. You need to get a bluetooth ODBII adapter to use it.
     
  15. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    Can I use Torque instead of miniVCI? Torque sounds pretty good, plug it in and monitor the system while I'm driving with my android device. I might go ahead and tear the interior down again and look at block 14 (2 modules furthest from the ECU/power connection to the car?). Maybe one of those cells is bad.
     
  16. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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  17. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    I measured the voltage for all of the modules. When I finished the reconditioning last month, the last step was to balance the voltage of the modules by tying the positives together and the negatives together. Now, a month later I've measured the voltages and there are some differences. For example, the three "new" modules I bought are at 8.09 V and the "old" modules are 7.97-8 V. One of the new modules is in position 27 (passenger side of car).

    I'll order mini VCI and see if I can learn more.
     
  18. FreydNot

    FreydNot Member

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    Since they are both fairly inexpensive options, I've got them both. I've been using Torque for quite a while, just I just picked up a mini-VCI just to have available.
     
  19. cgates30

    cgates30 Junior Member

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    I've tried to measure internal resistance, but I must not have a good experiment. I got a 25watt 2.2 ohm resistor to use as the load. I've got a current meter from the battery module to the resistor and a volt meter to measure voltage across the resistor during the test. I wire runs from the resistor back to the other terminal of the module. When I connect the current meter and module-to-resistor wires I see current flowing. The current is constantly dropping, but tends toward 3-3.25 A.

    Internal resistance = (V no load - V load)/current
    Battery block 14 (since block 14 threw the DTC)
    module 28: R=(7.77V-7.46V)/3.25A= 0.095 ohm
    module 27: R=(7.98V-7.62V)/3.27A= 0.110 ohm

    Block 13 (next door neighbor)
    module 26: R=(7.83V-7.42V)/3.19A= 0.129 ohm
    module 25: R=(7.80V-7.23V)/3.05A= 0.187 ohm

    I tried to wait 10 seconds to record the amperage, but I'd say plus/minus.

    Based on this, block 13 looks worse than block 14. Seems like it would be better to have a constant current load, but is there a good option for this? Is this the wrong test?

    Here's the type of resistor I used:
    photo (1).jpg
     
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Actually, your test looks good to me. Try the same test on battery blocks 1 and 2 and see how the voltages compare to what you've measured for battery blocks 13 and 14.

    The traction battery ECU is supposed to log a DTC when it measures a difference of 0.3V between module pairs.