Disappointed in Prius ('08) waiting for '10

[Zack]

Originally Posted by dwdean

LOL....

Well, at lest you drove it. I can respect that, even if I don’t agree with you conclusion.

Sorry to laugh, but with gas prices headed where they are, who really gives a rat's @ss about performance? If you're that rich, then just keep that Beemer running for the next decade. ...

dwdean, I am 51 years old and I don't drive fast at all. Cars we have in the house are choices of 4 adult drivers from 3-4 years ago. I drive Honda mini van and very happy with it.
I grew up in Europe and 900 - 1300 cc cars were and still are at least 80% of all cars on the road. Another fact is that most of the highways there have no speed limits! They drive as fast as they can and want (highway).

Conclusion is that we don't really need fuel guzzlers in the first place. People live and drive fine with engines half and less sized than average American car.
Conclusion is also that instead of waging war for oil in Iraq and spending billion per day doing so Bush could make grants or incentives to domestic car industry and demand practical EV solutions immediately (how about GM Volt?). Mass replacement of the regular cars with hybrids like Prius would slash oil dependency by 30-40% or more.
Conclusion is also that while I said that I like Prius and technological concept that it is nothing fantastic (at rates of 44 MPG that I achieved in everyday driving) since that kind of performance already exists for less and for very long time.
I believe that Toyota will come through in 2010 and VW maybe year earlier with 55-60 MPG performance for every average driver. I am buying at that moment, replace once for ever big engine cars that we have now.

[cairo94507]

Well I too respect that you drove one first. I think the Prius is a car which requires some time to get accustomed to. I initially did not like mine, thought I made a big mistake. After a couple of months of driving it along with starting to make some changes to personalize the car, I have loved it ever since. I have never attained the claimed mileage but routinely average 45 MPG.

I am 52 and drive the car moderately aggressive. I don't play the egg under the pedal routine and I certainly don't hold up traffic on the road. I like the canyon roads and when I find someone in a sports car in front of me in the canyon it is time to play. I don't crowd them, but they know I am there. Also, when a sports car is behind me and the road is clear in front of me I lead them through the turns at a good clip. By the time we emerge from the canyon they are looking at my Prius going what the heck have you done to that car. My car just turned 84,500 last night and still looks new. I will be eagerly awaiting the 2010 model for my next car.

[Zack]

Originally Posted by cairo94507

Well I too respect that you drove one first. I think the Prius is a car which requires some time to get accustomed to. I initially did not like mine, thought I made a big mistake. After a couple of months of driving it along with starting to make some changes to personalize the car, I have loved it ever since. I have never attained the claimed mileage but routinely average 45 MPG.
... I will be eagerly awaiting the 2010 model for my next car.

Agree with you. Difference is that I liked a Prius from first moment I started it. However I became disappointed over time achieving same kind of mileage as you do only. It looks like you have Prius for years and had plenty of time to master the car.
I will also be waiting for 2010. I think that one will hit bulls eye in every respect!

[kevinwhite]

Originally Posted by Zack

Rented a Prius to check the hype myself and while I generally like the car and idea I came out disappointed.

<...>
Conclusion, Prius has to have much bigger battery and thus much more all electric driving to get more impressive MPG. Plug-in.
We are talking normal driving speeds, NOT crawling speeds (just to beat the MFD numbers that pop up on the screen and make amazing post on this forum).

That's it. Now I have to brace for blast that will come from upset members of this forum.

Using the battery more would almost certainly give worse consumption.

When the Prius is running off the battery it is in effect taking a loan from future fuel consumption. As the efficiency of the generators, motors and battery are in the region of 50% - any energy use from battery will require twice as much energy from the engine to recharge the battery.

The engine control software takes this into account and only uses the battery under conditions where the engine would be running at less that half its normal efficiency (for example at less than 10-15HP).

Also it takes energy to energy to carry the battery around - the existing battery weighs about 100lb, doubling that would add another 100lb and could reduce fuel economy by 1mpg just because of that as well as adding significant cost. It is not a simple compromise and is not the best for all situations although does well for most.

kevin

[Sarge]

Hello Zack, welcome to PriusChat from a fellow GTA resident. I live in Mississauga and have had my '06 for just over two years and over 83K KM of driving, which I track, partially for work purposes. You may want to click my GreenHybrid link below to see a "real life" idea of what to expect, in Toronto's climate.

Overall, my average stands at 4.95L/100km (approx 47.5MPG US), driving completely normally, mostly on the 401 at rush hour. Just what this car was designed for. While it is far from the posted 4.0/4.2 numbers, I am very happy with the performance of this car so far.


A few thoughts, some recapping comments made earlier;

• The Prius is *not* designed to be a sports car, so comparing to a V6 anything is apples and oranges. It in fact has plenty of power for everyday driving, it just won't suck your eyeballs to the back of your head.
• Do not make the common mistake of comparing *real life* Prius numbers with *posted* numbers on other vehicles. Both are measured in "ideal" conditions, and your real-life driving factors would also bring down the other vehicles as well, to a degree.
• As someone else mentioned, be careful quoting European car mileage, due to the imperial gallon (4.55L) vs the US gallon (3.78L). This inflates their numbers about 20%.
• Contrary to what one would think, trying to drive as much as possible in Electric mode does NOT increase your overall efficiency. That battery will need be recharged anyway, you are only postponing the fuel consumption. Just drive it normally and let the car manage when to use EV.
• The car is engineered to minimize *emissions*, not fuel. Whenever the car starts up, the engine HAS to run to warm up the catalytic converter. Since a significant part of the fuel savings comes from shutting the engine off when not needed, this means short trips and very cold temperatures (i.e. Canadian winter) make the engine run more and reduce your efficiency. Longer trips, warmer climates are your friends.
• Don't believe the myth that the battery in the Prius will need to be automatically replaced at the end of your warranty for some $x000 amount of money. The battery is managed so well, that it generally lasts for the life of the car, and is at least more reliable than a typical automatic transmission (which this car doesn't have!), which is a big-ticket repair.
• The car should actually require LESS maintenance that a conventional car (i.e. longer lasting brakes, more reliable electric components, no "transmission", alternator, or starter, the latter three are relatively common failure components). Lots of threads about this stuff.

Anyway, I've written enough... it really is an excellent car, and the more you read & learn about it, the more impressed you will be. There are LOTS of excellent resources on this board to answer anything you need to know, and if you can't find it, just ask.

PS - you do realize there is $4000 in tax breaks for Ontario residents, right? $2K from Ontario and $2K from the Feds, though the latter expires at the end of the year...

[SuperDave]

I am going to disagree a little with both Kevin's. I Truly believe that there are many situations that if I had even a little more battery I could do far better on my mileage. In my day to day driving, I have more than enough opportunities to keep the battery charged and find myself wanting more battery at times.

If the battery is taking a loan from future fuel consumption, why are we hauling around the added weight of the battery and all of the electronics and paying the added price?

Would the Prius without the electrics and lighter weight get as good or better mileage? I don't think so, not even close. So somewhere in the mix we are getting more from the electric than we are "putting in".

[jendbbay]

With NO special techniques, and over a mixture of suface, freeway, and hill driving, we get 50.

[Maytrix]

Originally Posted by Zack

Agree with you. Difference is that I liked a Prius from first moment I started it. However I became disappointed over time achieving same kind of mileage as you do only. It looks like you have Prius for years and had plenty of time to master the car.
I will also be waiting for 2010. I think that one will hit bulls eye in every respect!

I get about that same mileage myself, hitting 45mpg pretty consistently.

I have achieved 60mpg before and could stay above 50mpg consistently, but I've chosen to drive faster. If I kept my speed between 65-70 that would make a huge difference. But driving 30k miles a year, I've started to drive faster.

First year though my running average was about 50-51mpg. Sometime after that I picked up the pace

[PriusSport]

I got 48 mpg first 150 miles. Raised tire pressure from 37/35 set by dealer to 39/37.
No change in handling. Last 50 miles I'm getting 52 mpg. The mpg depends a lot on how many short (0-5 mile) trips. That will bring you down into the 40s.

[PriusSport]

Originally Posted by cycledrum

Consumer Reports reported an average of 44 mpg ... to me that is really good for a car.

Add 2 mpg to the CR value for mixed driving--in my experience with other cars. Looks like the Prius is pretty close to a 50 mpg car on average.