Li-Ion Charge Life

[brighamwj]

Hi All,

EE specialist such as DarrylDD and Tideland Prius might be interested in this.

My good friend is a Power Management Director for the mobile unit at Intel.

He tells me that Li Batteries major drawback is their limited charge life.

Typically 2000-4000 charges total? Please excuse my lack of the correct terminology or incorrect information.

Any information as to how that will affect the lifetime and depreciation of the New GEN III once it is offered with Li with or without the Plug-In functionality will be appreciated (and maybe cause me to invest, like my friend, in a battery company or two).

Any forcast on the replacement cost of an Li pack in say 2015?

Regards.

[DanCar]

Li-ion batteries used in notebook computers are different then the ones that are going to be used in cars. I believe cars are going to be LiFePO4 based. Notebook computers are: Lithium Cobalt Oxide.

Lithium iron phosphate battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Manufactures will use different schemes to extend battery life, such as max charge of 80% and max discharge of 20%.

If there is one "charge" per day then 4000 charges will last 4000/365=11 years.

[aminorjourney]

Hi there

It's very difficult to make generalizations about battery technologies. For example, a lead acid battery like the one used to start most cars, may last for years when kept in good condition and will quite happily start a car come heavy snow or summer heatwave. However, that same battery wouldn't last six months in an EV designed to take lead acid batteries specifically designed for use in deep cycle applications.

Similarly, the lithium ion battery that powers my iPhone may have a similar technology (and very similar chemistry) to the lithium Ion cells in the 2010 prius, but thanks to the actual physical way they're made and the demands put on them they will behave in completely different ways.

Think for a second about the average computer laptop. Here, the aim is to provide huge amounts of power in a very small form factor, so that you can work while traveling, or watch several movies on a plane, for example. The pack is designed to have high power and small size. The compromise there is the pack life.

In the case of lithium cells for use in hybrids that's not the case. Designers will concentrate on cell life and durability before trying to squeeze extra power out of small spaces.

I don't think I've explained this very well. Sorry. But I hope it helps

Nikki.

[brighamwj]

Originally Posted by aminorjourney

Hi there

It's very difficult to make generalizations about battery technologies. For example, a lead acid battery like the one used to start most cars, may last for years when kept in good condition and will quite happily start a car come heavy snow or summer heatwave. However, that same battery wouldn't last six months in an EV designed to take lead acid batteries specifically designed for use in deep cycle applications.

Similarly, the lithium ion battery that powers my iPhone may have a similar technology (and very similar chemistry) to the lithium Ion cells in the 2010 prius, but thanks to the actual physical way they're made and the demands put on them they will behave in completely different ways.

Think for a second about the average computer laptop. Here, the aim is to provide huge amounts of power in a very small form factor, so that you can work while traveling, or watch several movies on a plane, for example. The pack is designed to have high power and small size. The compromise there is the pack life.

In the case of lithium cells for use in hybrids that's not the case. Designers will concentrate on cell life and durability before trying to squeeze extra power out of small spaces.

I don't think I've explained this very well. Sorry. But I hope it helps

Nikki.

No that was eloquent and well thought out. Your explanation was very clear.

Thank you for the responses.


I am hoping the Li batteries will be good for 4000 cycle/charges rather that 2000. I don't want to replace one in 2016.

Any idea at the projected life of the future Toyota/Panasonic/Matsushita? battery holding 80% charge or its replacement cost?

[brighamwj]

Originally Posted by DanCar

Li-ion batteries used in notebook computers are different then the ones that are going to be used in cars. I believe cars are going to be LiFePO4 based. Notebook computers are: Lithium Cobalt Oxide.

Lithium iron phosphate battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Manufactures will use different schemes to extend battery life, such as max charge of 80% and max discharge of 20%.

If there is one "charge" per day then 4000 charges will last 4000/365=11 years.

Excellent Tutorial on the Link. Thank you.