Off Subject. Solar for my house.

[V8Cobrakid]

Originally Posted by qbee42

Maybe they are growing pot in the basement. <wink>

Tom

BUSTED!.. oh wait.. i don't have a basement. come to think of it.. the house isn't even complete.

the property is non grid tied. It's located in boulder creek.

Our special needs are semi simple. My uncle consumed electricity all day long because he's a quadropolegic. It's either that his chair is consuming power because it's charging up his resperator and control batteries or he's plugged in at night into his resperator systems. He has very low body temperature control. he uses and electric 1500 watt floor heater to keep himself warm (sometimes it's off during the day). Other times he's heating up his arm sleeves with the microwave.. this goes on about each hour a day for 3 mins while he's in his chair.. which is 9am to 9pm. he watches tv all day.

My grandma has suffered multiple strokes. she's pretty much chair bound. she can't really control anything.. she can walk if you hold her arms.. but just barely. she watches tv all day...

Our consumption is much lower than before. I seriously dought it still at 50,000kw a year. the only reason it was that high is because we used to run our waterfall during the day (two pumps. each with it's own 15amp circuit). We also have a spa that works on a timer (nothing changed there). but we are getting rid of our shark tank.. at some time.. we assume this adds a healthy $500 or so to our montly utility. I don't know the wattage.... i do know there are 16builbs at 40watts, 4 pumps at ???watts, a heater at 1500watts and a cooling system for the light at ???watts.

all of our house bulbs are CFLs in this house.. they will all be CFLs in the new house too.

We are looking to build 3 off grid houses. I assume we'll still be pulling roughtly 20,000 to 30,000kw for the large house which holds most people. *shrug* pure guess...

We are planning on running our ovens off propane... *sigh* (hate propane).. and i want our hot water heater to run off electricity (3gal boiler). we are still trying to figure out our heating.. right now it's wood burning stove... it's the pyro in our family.. i want something a little more.. i don't know.. eco friendly?

We want solar with battery backup.. i figured the inverters didn't last too long.. thanks for the info.

Originally i thought it would be awesome to make a central grid on our property.. a power house.. a place where the batteries, panels, and back up prius will house themselves.. from there we would use AC to the houses. I assume we would have to boost the AC to get it across the mile of property to the three houses... but.. we seem to be falling back on the isolated "per house" plan.

So.. a question... can i make the battery bank as high of a voltage as i want? what's the penalty on too large of a system (performance wise).. er.. too high of a voltage... not enough amps?

I'm an AC guy.. not a DC guy. what's optimal for a system that's supporting 30,000kw a year? i've seen package deal 10,000kw systems... do they change or is it a parallel trick to up the amps? i assume i'll need inverters per 8,000kw to 10,000kws... i'm still stumped how i'm going to charge the bank off of the prius.

[V8Cobrakid]

Originally Posted by qbee42

Maybe they are growing pot in the basement. <wink>

Tom

BUSTED!.. oh wait.. i don't have a basement. come to think of it.. the house isn't even complete.

the property is non grid tied. It's located in boulder creek.

Our special needs are semi simple. My uncle consumed electricity all day long because he's a quadropolegic. It's either that his chair is consuming power because it's charging up his resperator and control batteries or he's plugged in at night into his resperator systems. He has very low body temperature control. he uses and electric 1500 watt floor heater to keep himself warm (sometimes it's off during the day). Other times he's heating up his arm sleeves with the microwave.. this goes on about each hour a day for 3 mins while he's in his chair.. which is 9am to 9pm. he watches tv all day.

My grandma has suffered multiple strokes. she's pretty much chair bound. she can't really control anything.. she can walk if you hold her arms.. but just barely. she watches tv all day...

Our consumption is much lower than before. I seriously dought it still at 50,000kw a year. the only reason it was that high is because we used to run our waterfall during the day (two pumps. each with it's own 15amp circuit). We also have a spa that works on a timer (nothing changed there). but we are getting rid of our shark tank.. at some time.. we assume this adds a healthy $500 or so to our montly utility. I don't know the wattage.... i do know there are 16builbs at 40watts, 4 pumps at ???watts, a heater at 1500watts and a cooling system for the light at ???watts.

all of our house bulbs are CFLs in this house.. they will all be CFLs in the new house too.

We are looking to build 3 off grid houses. I assume we'll still be pulling roughtly 20,000 to 30,000kw for the large house which holds most people. *shrug* pure guess...

We are planning on running our ovens off propane... *sigh* (hate propane).. and i want our hot water heater to run off electricity (3gal boiler). we are still trying to figure out our heating.. right now it's wood burning stove... it's the pyro in our family.. i want something a little more.. i don't know.. eco friendly?

We want solar with battery backup.. i figured the inverters didn't last too long.. thanks for the info.

Originally i thought it would be awesome to make a central grid on our property.. a power house.. a place where the batteries, panels, and back up prius will house themselves.. from there we would use AC to the houses. I assume we would have to boost the AC to get it across the mile of property to the three houses... but.. we seem to be falling back on the isolated "per house" plan.

So.. a question... can i make the battery bank as high of a voltage as i want? what's the penalty on too large of a system (performance wise).. er.. too high of a voltage... not enough amps?

I'm an AC guy.. not a DC guy. what's optimal for a system that's supporting 30,000kw a year? i've seen package deal 10,000kw systems... do they change or is it a parallel trick to up the amps? i assume i'll need inverters per 8,000kw to 10,000kws... i'm still stumped how i'm going to charge the bank off of the prius.

[Godiva]

You need to read up on all of the Gov. links re: rebates, tax credits, etc.

I was required to tie in to the local grid and get net metering.

You're going off the grid. That may eliminate your ability to get any credit. I don't know what the local situation is for your area.

BTW in some areas you *can* get money from the utility company for any extra you produce. Not so in my area. So it didn't pay to put in a bigger system than I needed.

Consider some tankless water heaters. You might designate one alone for heat. If you're building from scratch, you could put in radiant heat floors. And you can still have a fireplace or two. Put in a heatalator. My parents have one in their living room that produces so much heat you have to retreat into another room when it really gets going. It heats both the down stair and the upstair. It's double walled with fans to force the hot air out. They rarely use the fans.

There must be an architect in your area that can help you with designing both an electrical and heating system for a green, ecofriendly off grid house. Definately look into the insulating foam block concrete system. You use the foam blocks to build forms for pouring concrete. Then just leave them there. They act as insulation.

[V8Cobrakid]

the frame of the house is already set. I was thinking of tankless water heaters.. i'm sure we could spare a lil electricity to heat our floors with warm water.. it feels great on the feet

From what i was looking at... we won't be getting any rebates. Building the system shouldn't be all that hard.. it's the plug in prius part that's stumping me...

We figured we were going to install 1 wood burning stove. with the smallish size of this house and the firplace being right next to the stairs... this house should stay pretty warm off of wood... plus.. the burning will be in my uncles room.. so.. no more 1500w heater plugged in all day long. i planned on attaching some form of heat exhanger to the system. I've seen a few inline designs and i know of a few wood stoves with build in thermostats for the fans.

[BellaRose]

You might want to check out R.E.C. Solar... REC Solar Power Company: A Solar Panel Company that uses Solar Panels to generate Solar Electricity for You
They are the #1 solar provider/ installer in the US.
A family friend had their solar installed on their home by R.E.C. and love it!
I happen to know that the people of R.E.C. are a really awesome group of people (and no, I don't work for them).
The company is based in SLO, but they have offices all over. Plus, I think someone said their house is in CO & R.E.C. has an office there too!
Good luck!

[RobH]

A little back of the envelope calculation...

Take my observation that my grid-tie system is about price equal to grid power over a period of 20 years. Rebates paid about 50% of my system. I did all the work myself, so we're ignoring any installer margin.

You're paying $800/month for the electricity you use. Times 12 months/year, times 20 years, times 2 for battery vs. battery-less, times 2 for no rebates. 800*12*20*2*2 = $768,000 system cost to equal an $800/month electric bill.

Ok, so these are mushy numbers, but I think you get my drift. You're not going to install a solar system that provides the same power as you are accustomed to with a $800/month electric bill. Try cutting that down by about 95%....

I think you need to get the full archives from Homepower magazine. The people who run it live about 10 miles from the nearest power line. The magazine is an outgrowth of their experience in living offgrid. It's pretty slick now, and has a lot of grid-tie coverage. The earlier copies of the magazine were strictly offgrid.

There is a gathering of solar electric people in John Day, Oregon that I recommend. It's in early August every year. The town of John Day is so large that it has a three-color traffic signal in the center of town. The only one in the county. People gather there to compare notes about offgrid living. Where grid-tie living is mostly about ecology, offgrid is more about having electricity. Grid-tie people are fascinated to watch their electric meter run backwards. Offgrid people watch their power meter to see if they can run the washing machine that day.

Solar power is a variable resource. If you size a system to operate in the dead of winter, it's going to be way too large in summer. Assuming of course that you have the money/resources to build a winter capable system. Most offgrid solar systems have generator backup for use during extended periods of no sun. Micro hydro and wind are extra resources that can complement solar.

If there is any way to get access to city power, the California government will kick in about 1/3 the cost of the equipment. You don't have to actually use the power, but you do have to have the mechanical connection to the grid. The $5/month connection charge is well worth the access to rebates. Plus you probably want to buy their power in the winter.

Solar power systems require an inverter that is designed to optimize the power available from solar cells. A computer backup power system is quite different, as it doesn't have to manage the characteristics of solar cells. So if you don't want to engineer your own inverter, you're stuck with using very specific size battery systems. The offgrid standard is called "nominal 48-volt", which uses solar connections that provide about 48 to 70 volts. The Outback brand is probably what you'll end up using. The major grid-tie brand is Sunnyboy, but I don't think they have anything for battery systems.

I'm envious of what you're doing. It sounds like a real adventure in independent living.

[Godiva]

Oh, yes. Wind generator. If you can, put one in so you're producing when the wind kicks up.

[V8Cobrakid]

wow.. thanks rob.

this will be quite the trip into off grid living.

[V8Cobrakid]

i love the idea of wind.. and hydro.. but the hydro doesn't run that much water.. it's small streams... we own the top of the mountain.

wind would be fantastic. what does it take to incorporate wind? we get a steady wind all day.

[Godiva]

I didn't research wind too much, but I would think they attach to an inverter just like the PV panels do. If you get wind at night, you can generate 24/7 between the PV and the Wind.