Making Arrows Vanish

TorontoSusan · 01-06-2006, 08:02 AM

It takes a bit of practice: I too have a late 2005 and I tried this technique after reading it on the board. It does work but it needs a very light touch on the accelerator - very light. I can do it - esp if I've got a good speed and I want to glide. For me, the key is to get it up to speed and then lightly touch the accelerator pedal until the arrows disappear .. use if often on a slight downgrade coming home from work.

Keep trying ... it's neat! and yes, the 'no arrows' will show up on your monitor.

geologyrox · 01-06-2006, 09:17 AM

a long extended stretch of flat (or, i suppose, a slight downhill - steep just seems to make the batteries charge) seems to be ideal to figure out that point that you need to find. You'll be able to do it better on less ideal surfaces if you can get in some practice somewhere perfect. It's been described many times, but heres a new Prius Driver observations:

First, get to the speed you want to coast down from - around here, the speed limit is about 40, so I go up to about 45. It's pretty difficult to get it to work above 40ish, but I always try. I take my foot off the gas as far as I need to to get into regen - green arrows from the wheels to the motor to the battery. Then I apply a tiny bit more gas - just until the arrows change, and very slowly. Sometimes I've gotten it in just fine, and the arrows all disappear. The car slows down kind of quickly in regen, but the car maintains it's speed much better with no arrows - even later when you can get it to do it up a hill. Most times, though, I apply just a bit too much gas, and the regen arrows switch directions and turn yellow - I'm using the battery to power the motor sending power to the wheels. If you hit yellow, don't worry - just lift up a tiny bit, very slowly - the arrows should disappear. You may 'overshoot' it again - just keep going to green, then yellow, and back - try each time to be a little bit slower.

You get pretty good at this pretty quickly - learning on good flat ground means you get good at it, and then can use it on the hillier portions. Good luck!

airportkid · 01-06-2006, 04:31 PM

Many thanks for all the insights and instructions!

Of course, right after I posted the original question, I tried again and (magic!) managed to make the arrows disappear. This is the usual outcome of making any sort of claim - the next action refutes it.

But all your comments are nonetheless helpful. Thanks again!

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

DanMan32 · 01-11-2006, 03:12 PM

With regard to the suggestion that deadbanding doesn't help MPG.

Consider that changing energy from one form to another has inheritant losses, usually in the form of heat. So if you are going to stop, if you can glide without regen as much as possible, you lose less to regen.
So, if because of friction and drag you could slow down from 50 to 20 in 1000 feet, start deadbanding 1000 feet from the stop.

As for deadbanding for acceleration, I don't see that possible, even if by deadbanding you mean accelerating with ICE only. MG1 has to either give or take a force in order to get ICE's power to the wheels, and usually it would act as a generator to do so. That generated energy is best going completely to MG2 rather than going to the battery.

By the way, I know this may sound counter intuitive but it has been determined using the miniscanner on a classic that at cruising, the car actually takes power from MG2 and sends it to MG1 to emmulate overdrive.

Kiloran · 01-11-2006, 03:42 PM

I want a "Glide" button on the steering wheel that would force gliding without the hassle and restore "D" gear when released.

Or, better yet, allow me to set an option where there is no regen unless braking or in "B" gear so I can easily choose when to regen.

----------
Edit: Changed "Coast" to "Glide" and "deadbanding" to "gliding"

**efusco** · 01-11-2006, 03:50 PM

Just for clarification of terms:
Dead-banding--refers to the ICE-only (no arrows to or from the battery) driving
Gliding--refers to the no-arrows condition on the Energy screen when coasting with slight accelerator pressure to eliminate regeneration. FWIW, Even when gliding there is some flow from the battery to the wheels...albeit a small amount--usually in the range of 2-6 amps. It's just not displayed on the Energy screen.

01-06-2006, 08:02 AM	#11
TorontoSusan Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto, Ontario CANADA Posts: 44 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	It takes a bit of practice: I too have a late 2005 and I tried this technique after reading it on the board. It does work but it needs a very light touch on the accelerator - very light. I can do it - esp if I've got a good speed and I want to glide. For me, the key is to get it up to speed and then lightly touch the accelerator pedal until the arrows disappear .. use if often on a slight downgrade coming home from work. Keep trying ... it's neat! and yes, the 'no arrows' will show up on your monitor. __________________ 2005 Driftwood Toronto Canada

01-06-2006, 09:17 AM	#12
geologyrox Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 513 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	a long extended stretch of flat (or, i suppose, a slight downhill - steep just seems to make the batteries charge) seems to be ideal to figure out that point that you need to find. You'll be able to do it better on less ideal surfaces if you can get in some practice somewhere perfect. It's been described many times, but heres a new Prius Driver observations: First, get to the speed you want to coast down from - around here, the speed limit is about 40, so I go up to about 45. It's pretty difficult to get it to work above 40ish, but I always try. I take my foot off the gas as far as I need to to get into regen - green arrows from the wheels to the motor to the battery. Then I apply a tiny bit more gas - just until the arrows change, and very slowly. Sometimes I've gotten it in just fine, and the arrows all disappear. The car slows down kind of quickly in regen, but the car maintains it's speed much better with no arrows - even later when you can get it to do it up a hill. Most times, though, I apply just a bit too much gas, and the regen arrows switch directions and turn yellow - I'm using the battery to power the motor sending power to the wheels. If you hit yellow, don't worry - just lift up a tiny bit, very slowly - the arrows should disappear. You may 'overshoot' it again - just keep going to green, then yellow, and back - try each time to be a little bit slower. You get pretty good at this pretty quickly - learning on good flat ground means you get good at it, and then can use it on the hillier portions. Good luck! __________________ "If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas." - George Bernard Shaw

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01-06-2006, 04:31 PM	#13
airportkid Will Fly For Food Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Francisco Bay Area CA Posts: 1,305 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: #5 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 1	Many thanks for all the insights and instructions! Of course, right after I posted the original question, I tried again and (magic!) managed to make the arrows disappear. This is the usual outcome of making any sort of claim - the next action refutes it. But all your comments are nonetheless helpful. Thanks again! Mark Baird Alameda CA

01-11-2006, 03:12 PM	#14
DanMan32 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 3,775 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	With regard to the suggestion that deadbanding doesn't help MPG. Consider that changing energy from one form to another has inheritant losses, usually in the form of heat. So if you are going to stop, if you can glide without regen as much as possible, you lose less to regen. So, if because of friction and drag you could slow down from 50 to 20 in 1000 feet, start deadbanding 1000 feet from the stop. As for deadbanding for acceleration, I don't see that possible, even if by deadbanding you mean accelerating with ICE only. MG1 has to either give or take a force in order to get ICE's power to the wheels, and usually it would act as a generator to do so. That generated energy is best going completely to MG2 rather than going to the battery. By the way, I know this may sound counter intuitive but it has been determined using the miniscanner on a classic that at cruising, the car actually takes power from MG2 and sends it to MG1 to emmulate overdrive.

01-11-2006, 03:42 PM	#15
Kiloran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,225 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I want a "Glide" button on the steering wheel that would force gliding without the hassle and restore "D" gear when released. Or, better yet, allow me to set an option where there is no regen unless braking or in "B" gear so I can easily choose when to regen. ---------- Edit: Changed "Coast" to "Glide" and "deadbanding" to "gliding"

01-11-2006, 03:50 PM	#16
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 14,042 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 1 Time in 1 Post TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 23	Just for clarification of terms: Dead-banding--refers to the ICE-only (no arrows to or from the battery) driving Gliding--refers to the no-arrows condition on the Energy screen when coasting with slight accelerator pressure to eliminate regeneration. FWIW, Even when gliding there is some flow from the battery to the wheels...albeit a small amount--usually in the range of 2-6 amps. It's just not displayed on the Energy screen.