MFD issues on '04/'05 Prius

[hobbit]

Techno-fandom.org, aka netbusters.com, is served by three or
four nameservers listed for it. One of them is ariel.iwl.com,
hosted by InterWorking Labs in California. Karl Auerbach is one
of the principals there, old buddies with the guy who maintains
techno-fandom.org, and this all goes way back to the early days
of Interop and such. Anyways, ariel.iwl.com has been continuing
to hand out the wrong address for the two weeks since techno-fandom
physically changed networks. The rest of its nameservers have
followed along and been updated, it's just this one NS that's
stuck in wrong-data land. Efforts to reach someone with a clue
over there are continuing. I have no idea why it didn't just
secondary and fix itself, but maybe it's a hand-edited entry.
.
In the meantime, http://216.235.242.8/~hobbit/cars/mfd/ will work
as a link, which points straight to the correct address.
.
Note that this isn't a "hosting company" per se, it's a friend's
machine that he makes available as a community resource to the
convention production-tech folks, the New England Folk Festival,
and various other organizations. While it's one or maybe two
people occasionally maintaining the machine, moving away from
that setup to a commercial provider is *totally* not an option.
Why would I even consider throwing away the ability to deal with
someone who can actually spell DNS, and set myself up for being
on hold for 4 hours with some clueless git in the Phillipines
purporting to be "support" when they can't help me? That's what
you get in the commercial sector nowadays. Screw that.
.
_H*

[jdenenberg]

Originally Posted by hobbit

Why would I even consider throwing away the ability to deal with
someone who can actually spell DNS, and set myself up for being
on hold for 4 hours with some clueless git in the Phillipines
purporting to be "support" when they can't help me? That's what
you get in the commercial sector nowadays. Screw that.
.
_H*

Hobbit,

That's why I run my own web server in my basement.

JeffD
http://doctord.webhop.net

[patsparks]

I removed the board from my MFD and was going to solder it but with my close vision and equipment I decided an expert would be better. Rang local computer shop, they refered me to another computer shop, they saw it and said sorry to small but they refered me to a guy, Harry who repairs laptops and PDAs.

Harry had a look at the board and said from pin 60 5 or 6 connections were cracked. He re-flowed the whole side of the plug and charged me his minimum charge of $25, BARGAIN!!!!

I don't have time to assemble right now but will tomorrow and will post the results. He showed me his work under a microscope at 200X magnification and it is beautiful. I am taking a broken PDA to him on the way to work tonight. I'll post Harry's contact details tomorrow in case another Prius owner in Adelaide has the same issue.

[richard schumacher]

Sweet! My inclination would be to use *ahem* lead solder for this repair because it should be less brittle and so less likely to crack again.

[patsparks]

Went out for a 10 minute test drive and it works perfectly!! (so far)

[patsparks]

This may be handy for Aussies, Kiwis and poms, although I don't think the poms got the 2004-5 Prius.
There is some soldering involved and dismantling the MFD can be a little tricky as some of the plugs are tight. I had an electronics expert from
Harry's Electrionic Repairs
3 Inverell Avenue,
Plympton North, SA 5033
Phone 0418 804 076 who specialises in tiny stuff like PDAs and laptops re-solder the plug in mine and he charged his minimum charge of $25, and did it while I waited! A bargain as Toyota will want thousands for a new MFD. He didn't only solder 2 connections, he did all of them on that side of the plug, all 30!! If you aren't confident with the dismantling of the MFD have it done by someone like Harry, print the instructions from the link and take them in. You will be charged for the extra work but much less than a full new screen.

Thanks Hobbit.
Dismantling the dash is a little different for us Aussies, you need to remove the right side vent and power switch silver part of the dash, it pulls out with gripping it top and bottom pull back and up slightly. There is a release tab to pull the plug from the back of the power switch.
Remove 2 screws from the lower dash both to the right of the steering colum at the bottom of the panel then pull the lower dash away carefully then the top half comes off, no need to remove the glove boxes but you need them open. Now remove the vent panels either side of the MFD the same way as the right side one. 2 10mm hex bolts, one each side of the MFD hold it in place, once removed you can unplug the MFD and the switches on the bottom. From here on the instructions on the link are good. Reinstall is reverse of removal. Take care replacing the right side vent panel, there is a easy to break off lug that a tab near the power switch fits into so be careful to line it up.

When assembling the screen ensure the steel mount for the plastic surround is as far back as possible before tightening the screws or it won't fit properly in the dash. If you get this wrong you need to remove the plastic surround, loosen the screws and push it back then tighten the screws. That's what I needed to do.

[patsparks]

Something else I found, others may confirm or deny.
As an example of how sharp the screen is now.
On the consumption screen in the top left corner there is a picture of a little Prius which looks like is has a moon or earth or something behind it. Before the repair I couldn't see the moon on the screen and after the fix I thought I must have put too much pressure on that corner of the screen and damaged it but when I change to a different page it's not there.
So if you have a 2004-5 Prius and you can't see a circle which looks a bit like a moon (could be an earth) then be prepared to fix your screen. It may be worth tackling before it fails, it is pretty cheap to fix (now).

[Bob Cowart]

see next msg

[Bob Cowart]

Here is my story about a dead MFD. I have also posted this on my blog at:

Robert Cowart's Blog Space

There are three chapters of this story posted here, chronologically, from bottom up. I am interested in collecting names of others who have broken MFDs. I think it's time to initiate a class action. Anyone interested?

Sunday, December 30, 2007

Prius broken Multi-Function-Display update

I have not yet heard from Toyota of Berkeley's owner, Mr. Tim Southwick. I wrote the letter in May of 2007 and it has been over seven months (see letter below in this post). So I have contacted the Toyota Customer Experience hot line [800-331-4331] and had several conversations with a woman named Robin. She has been very courteous and diligent about getting back to me. After about five calls, including calls she made to the national and regional offices of Toyota, she informed me of the bad news. This I find hard to believe, and you may also. Toyota is not going to give me a break on the MFD replacement. Well, actually, they claim that the $850 or so they want to replace it IS a break already, and that a new unit is over $3,000. This is a factory refurb unit they want to sell me. I insisted that I had read on the Priuschat site that people had gotten much better deals, even no charge or $200 or so, and Robin confirmed this. However, she said the customer cited in that post had purchased five Toyotas from that dealer so they were doing the loyal customer a big favor. I said that this is ridiculous. The MFD is known to be bad in the 2004 Prius model year and they often fail. (Toyota technical service bulletin TSB #EL002-05 details this issue.) She said there were nothing they can do for me. I have to say that I'm very disappointed in Toyota, and in Toyota of Berkeley particularly. I asked Robin to have someone from Toyota of Berkeley at least phone me to tell me the news and respond to my letter. But so far there has been no call. It's been a few weeks now. I have no intention of paying $850 to have Toyota repair a piece of equipment that has a known defect, and that there is even a technical service bulletin for. Toyota should replace these free of charge when they come in broken in the way that is the known and expected failure mode, in my opinion! This does not speak well of the Prius, nor of Toyota USA.

[blog update previously posted is next]

Well, four months later.... I have heard nothing from Toyota of Berkeley. I am going to phone the Toyota Customer Experience line next. I have contacted Channel 4 KPIX TV in the Oakland area about this, and corresponded with the consumer advice people. They claim to have contacted a different Toyota dealership and been told about the "goodwill" situation (that if folks are not bringing in their cars for regular service at the expensive dealership shop they do not get treated very well in gray area situations like this) and that the MFD is out of warranty and that therefore I should have to pay full price for repair. I find the inconsistency over this particular failure and repair to be annoying and to not speak well of Toyota. I believe they should simply issue a recall or a blanket policy to replace malfunctioning multi-display units. If anyone has specific phone numbers and even names of contacts to call about this, I would appreciate it if you were to email me.

Bob

[initial blog post below]

Wednesday, May 30, 2007

Prius update: Broken computer

Bad news about my Prius. The multi-function-display, the touch screen in the middle of the dashboard that has all the goodies on it such as the navigation system has failed, and the dealer has just told me that it will not be replaced, even though many Prius owners have reported this failure. Here is my letter to the local Toyota dealership, explaining my chagrin over the lack of coverage. The failure occured shortly after the 36,000 mile warranty expired. A new unit if $4000. A refurb unit is $825+tax.

5/30/07
RE: My 2004 Prius MFD failure

ATTN: Tim Southwick Jr., Toyota of Berkeley, CA

Dear Mr Southwick,

In August of 2003, I reserved and paid in advance for a new 2004 Prius that I have been very happy with, for the most part. I was an early adopter of a new technology, buying even before the car was available. I took possession in October, 2004. Having previously driven a Honda EV+, I was all in favor of electrics and hybrids. I am an author of over 40 books about computers and technology, and have written over 100 magazine articles about high technology, and have promoted the Prius actively since happily purchasing it from Marty Zeitman at your dealership. I have sent numerous people to your dealership to look at Priuses, and probably am responsible for a few of your sales. I myself purchased the full package #6 with all the bells and whistles. It hasn’t been perfect, with the navigation system sometimes leading me astray, for example, but that is to be expected.

At about 35K miles, the multi-display unit began to malfunction. No navgation, no radio, energy system not showing battery level, etc. I’m sure you are aware of this issue. I thought it was a glitch and would clear up, as the car is basically a computer on wheels, and we all know that computers lose their minds sometimes. Since I write books about computers, I know all about that! I just waited and hoped the problem would clear up, but it did not. I Googled about, read the Prius forums, and found that lo and behold I was not the only person with this problem! In fact, it's happening on 2004 Highlanders and Land Cruisers with the navigation system, and on 2004 Prius with or without the navigation system. I even hear there a TSB #EL002-05 which identifies this problem, which means Toyota is aware of this issue, so most likely it is an inherent design flaw meaning it was there from the beginning, including before the 36,000 mile mark was passed. In any case, the owner’s manual clearly describes the MFD as being part of the hybrid system, so it shouldn't even be an issue. This failure should be covered up to 100,000 miles!

After realizing this was not going to clear up, I was about 5K miles past the warranty. I brought my Prius into your dealership today for reprogramming (since I received a TSB recall, called SSC 50P), and had it all checked out. Repair team captain Ray Prasad told me that it was indeed defective and I would not be covered, and I could have a refurb unit installed for $800 or so, plus tax. I was not happy about this, and so I then had a long conversation with Dave, your shop manager, who explained that because I had not come in for regular service at your dealership, I was not favorably looked upon for an out of-warranty repair of the MFD. I said I did not understand this policy, since I had already given the dealership quite a large sum to purchase the car. He explained that this was essentially irrelevant. He said that good will was dependent upon bringing a car into the dealership for service. (Apparently the good will of bringing you $28,000 has very short legs.) Oddly enough, he then went on to explain that actually the dealership lost money doing oil changes because of the labor costs. I explained that I was getting my oil changes for $15 when I supply the Mobil 1 5W-30 that I like to put in my cars, and that even includes a filter, so we were both better off if I got my oil changes elsewhere. I also said that last time I asked for a tire rotation, his shop refused to do it because there was not enough tread on the tires. At that time, I felt pretty rudely treated by Ray, who grilled me about where I was getting my service done, which is another reason I had not returned for regular service, by the way.

I feel I came to Toyota of Berkeley in 2003 in good faith, and paid MSRP for a car I had never even seen before. I did not haggle, or even try. I paid $28,000 cash. This was the first new car I have ever bought. I sold my Nissan 300ZX and Audi 5000 to be able to afford this. Now this car seems has a known defect that was not recalled by Toyota. Maybe Toyota was hoping most failures would happen after the 36K warranty expired. Yet many people seem to be getting a pretty good deal from some Toyota dealerships who admit this manufacturing defect. (I can quickly find more than a few examples on Prius-chat of owners saying they got replacements for either no charge or a few hundred dollars.) But not me. I now have a state-of-the-art hybrid with no navigation system, intermittent radio with limited tuning ability, limited climate controls, and no energy readout.

I currently have a blog online at http://bobcowart.blogspot.com/ talking about the Prius mostly in positive terms. My 45 technology books are available in over 15 languages (see Amazon.com under Robert Cowart) and have sold over 1 million copies worldwide. I would love to continue to praise the Prius to my readership and those who read my blog. However, this recent development has me wondering whether Toyota’s reputation for reliability might be falling into question. While I applaud Toyota for taking the leadership to research and produce the Prius (which I realize has been a loss leader while the demand for hybrids heats up), I also feel they must own up to electronics design errors, just as computer manufacturers such as Dell and Lenovo have done recently around defective batteries that were well out of warranty. It appears the MFD in the early 2004 Prius was defective from the outset and should be replaced without making disgruntled owners jump through hoops at their dealerships.

I look forward to your reply, and will await it prior to contacting regional or national Toyota Customer Service.

Sincerely,
Robert Cowart

[patsparks]

I just fixed mine. Cost me $25 and 2 or 3 hours of my time. It isn't that big a deal. It is a common problem so the fix should also be a common action, all the instructions are here on PC, if you haven't got the skills required have a mechanic pull the screen out, you can drive the car while it's out then have a tech repair it with instructions from here.

Toyota sorted the problem in later models, the fix isn't that expensive if you do it privately so just fix it, no point being a victim. If you were in the warranty period Toyota would have fixed it no charge I'm sure.

I'm still happy I didn't spend my hard earned on an extended warranty I haven't really needed yet. I guess when the third edition comes out people might consider the extra warranty to cover these new model issues.