What ACEA Specs should I be looking for?

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Time for the first oil change on the 07 Prius. After much homework on past oil threads (thanks jayman), I could use a recommendation as to the synthetic I should select. But here is the need:

1) Must be high performing synthetic (but no severe cold weather needs). Specifically it needs to meet the "right" ACEA specifications.
2) Oil change interval will be 10k miles or longer from here on out.
3) Oil will be analyzed to maximize protection and change interval.


Lessons I have learned:
1) 5k mile change intervals do not prevent sludging with crappy oil...at least on '99 Camry.
2) Too many people are terrified of the auto lawyers voiding the warranty at 5001 miles with no oil change. I will care for the car based on engineering data, not perceived legal loopholes. I also will not dump good oil into the "mystery" location (somewhere on the planet I live on) because I am told I have to.
3) All oil changes have been, and will continue to be, done by me.
4) Sign and Date your oil changes with the mileage and oil installed. (What makes the quick lube shop stamp more "legal"?...Answer, it isn't.)
5) The Prius engine is going to last just fine with proper care. As Galaxee has pointed out, you can fake data, you cannot fake engine mistreatment....so don't mistreat the engine....or the planet.

What I need is:
1) What ACEA specifications should the oil meet?
2) What is the optimum synthetic to use (Mobil One EP ?, Amsoil?) for maximum life (with analysis) that meet these specs?

[jayman]

Well, the only Mobil product I am aware of - asides from the "EP" line - that specifically meet accepted European ACEA extended drain specs would be Mobil 1 0W-40 European Car Formula

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil...il_1_0W-40.aspx

The ACEA A3/B3 and B4 approvals specifically cover severe operating conditions, and extended oil change intervals. In addition, this product is specifically engineered to meet the BMW LongLife 01 specs.

Under those approvals, Mobil 1 0W-40 is used in Europe for oil change intervals up to 24 months or 20,000 miles. Used oil analysis will determine the appropriate interval for you, I suggest the first sample at 6,000 miles, then 8,000 miles, 10,000 miles, 12,000 miles, etc

At the very least, you won't have sludge.

[richard schumacher]

You can have oil analyses up the wazoo, but if you routinely go far beyond 5,000 miles and for whatever reason develop an engine problem Toyota may consider your w@rranty to be void. Do you really want to open the possibility of fighting with them about it?

[FL_Prius_Driver]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Nov 28 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]545404[/snapback]</div>

You can have oil analyses up the wazoo, but if you routinely go far beyond 5,000 miles and for whatever reason develop an engine problem Toyota may consider your w@rranty to be void. Do you really want to open the possibility of fighting with them about it?
[/b]

Been there, done that.

[jayman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Nov 28 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]545404[/snapback]</div>

Do you really want to open the possibility of fighting with them about it?
[/b]

Or, you can take your Toyota to the dealership, have it maintained "by the book" with the wonderful bulk mystery no-name oil, develop a problem down the road, and fight Toyota about the engine problems.

http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

At least in the industrial cases I have had the misfortune to get involved with, oil analysis is the gold standard. The manufacturer has to accept the uoa reports as indicitive of system health. The only thing a uoa won't uncover is a hidden manufacturing defect, say a hard alpha inclusion on a journal or some other sort of hidden defect.

In that case, the end result is usually a catastrophic failure. It wouldn't matter if you changed the oil every day, it would not prevent such a failure

[FL_Prius_Driver]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Nov 28 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]545472[/snapback]</div>

Or, you can take your Toyota to the dealership, have it maintained "by the book" with the wonderful bulk mystery no-name oil, develop a problem down the road, and fight Toyota about the engine problems.
[/b]

Bingo! That's almost exactly the situation I experienced with the Camry. I documented the oil changes (at extended intervals) and Toyota overhauled the engine under warranty after sludging was discovered. However, the lesson learned was to figure out how to take the best possible care of the engine and avoid lubrication problems (not win legal battles over a sludged/damaged engine). Good for Toyota doing the right thing, but shame on me for not using an oil that should not have sludged to begin with.

It was an eye opener to find out that Mobil lowered the quality of Mobil One some time ago so that it no longer met the highest standards in Europe. (Hence the arrival of Mobil One Extended Performance).

As a result I have decided to go with Amsoil 0W-30 or 5W-30. (AECA A5/B5-04) I like the fact that Amsoil is in the lubrication business as a main line (vs. as a sideline) and always consider that everything I buy constitutes voting with my wallet.

[jayman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Nov 28 2007, 08:53 PM) [snapback]545499[/snapback]</div>

It was an eye opener to find out that Mobil lowered the quality of Mobil One some time ago so that it no longer met the highest standards in Europe. (Hence the arrival of Mobil One Extended Performance).
[/b]

Actually, the M1 EP line does *not* meet the "highest standards" of the ACEA. Only Mobil 1 0W-40 "European Car Formula" meets the ACEA A3/B3, B4, BMW LongLife 01, Porsche, and Mercedes Benz approvals, in addition to General Motors Long Life in their EU market gasoline and light duty diesel motors.