New Mobil 1 Sythetic Oils?

[V8Cobrakid]

lol Dan. My third answer was " need to learn more" type of answer.. it didn't work on the poll though *shrug*

[V8Cobrakid]

The reason i bring up this post is for opinions. I trust the opinions of people on PC. In my case, i drive 5k miles every month. An oil that would last 3 months 15k miles would be very nice for me. 10k would be cool too. Anything over 5k miles would make my life just that much easier. I don't always hit 5k miles every oil change. Sometimes more. The most has been 7500miles or so. I always use Mobil1. *shrug*

Maybe i should just stick with my current oil changes.

[jayman]

To answer the poll: Not unless you can tell me how the oil magically eliminates combustion contamination.

Dan:

A motor oil does *not* "magically" eliminate the byproducts of combustion. What a motor oil *does* is - through a carefully selected basestock and additive treatment package - *cope* with the byproducts of combustion.

A major stumbling block to extended oil changes in North America is - ironically enough - the oil industry itself. For a long time the API (American Petroleum Institute) made up the oil specifications. Since the API is in the business to promote the petroleum industry, and with the protection of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, it has always promoted short oil change intervals.

A lot of that has to do with how crappy the API motor oil specs are compared to the ACEA specs. For example, up until recently, a motor oil that met the API approval could thicken 500% in service. A motor oil that thickens that much needs a hammer and chisel to get it out of the pan.

API specs also allowed 40% of a motor oil to vaporize in testing, so not surprisingly the test engineer was allowed to add up to 8 quarts of makeup oil during the relatively short 80 hour engine stand test. FYI current SL specs are somewhat stricter in that only 25% of the oil can burn off, and it can "only" thicken by 250%.

The ACEA usually sets the limit at 15% vaporization and 80% thickening. No makeup oil is allowed during the 200 hour test. This is quite a difference to motor oil life.

In Europe, the car maker is given almost free reign to set the motor oil specs. I bet you wondered why VW and Mercedes had such odd specs? That's why. The testing authority is the ACEA :

http://www.acea.be

If you examine the ACEA A3 and A5 specs, especially the B4-02 spec, there is a huge difference in how test engineers specify the performance of the motor oil.

The primary motor oil contaminate is moisture from condensation and blowby. This tends to create acid in a gasoline powered motor oil. To combat the acid, an oil must have a high TBN (Total Base Number).

Mineral oils usually cannot be refined with high TBN levels as the basestock and additives cannot handle it. The exception is certain HD diesel motor oils, such as 15W-40 viscosity to meet CI+ specs.

Regular cheap North American motor oils might have a TBN of 4-6. A very high quality synthetic A3/B4-02 motor oil might have a TBN of 12-15.

So a high quality synthetic motor oil not only holds up better due to the better basestock, but the additive package is more able to cope with combustion byproducts.

At a certain level, the oil filter has to plug, and that usually sets the oil change interval. Unless you're willing to invest in bypass oil filters, which theoretically allow oil change intervals of +40,000 miles.

Since Toyota appears to mandate at least a semi-synthetic 10W-40 oil in most of Europe, they also allow a 1 year or 16,000km oil change. We don't seem to be hearing of many Prius motors blowing up in Europe.

Before the PriusChat site crashed, I posted some URL's of VW in the UK and their long-life service regime of up to 2 years or 50,000km if they use a special Castrol LongLife SLX 0W-30 motor oil. Did you follow that URL??

So it's not "magic" but carefully-controlled chemistry. That said, if I had to run some cheap generic crap 5W-30 North American oil, I'd probably change it every 3 months or 5,000km. That stuff is garbage.

[V8Cobrakid]

well said Jayman

Now.. i change my oil myself. If i have problems, they are most likely going to point the finger at me anyways. I have no way of properly documenting that i changed my oil, unless i show them my oil and filter receipts.. ok.. n/m.. but still. If anything goes wrong, it's a fight between the oil makers, myself, and Toyota. I'll probably be the one to lose.

So... think the better sythetic is a bad idea? I think i mented that i travel approximatly 6,000miles a month. That's while using my synthetic. You could use normal crappy oil and travel 5,000 miles. When i change my oil, it is still oil. Usualy it gets more a a gasoline type smell because it starts breaking down. I wish i could properly test my oil. i would like to know how far the oil will go

[jayman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid\";p=\"68511)</div>

So... think the better sythetic is a bad idea?[/b]

As you stated, since you do your own oil changes, you would get into a p******* contest with Toyota if anything *did* go wrong with the ICE. So it probably wouldn't matter if you used the Mobil 1 EP and extended the OCI. Make sure to use the "tall" Toyota filter, it has greater filter capacity.

With careful documentation, the Mobil 1 EP line of oils may work well for you. I haven't read the fine print for their "warranty" is it quite picky?? Eg: does not apply to new cars under factory warranty or some such nonsense??

Have you looked at other Mobil 1 oils specifically formulated for extended oil changes, with approval to European extended drains? For example, Mobil 1 0W-40 meets the Long Life specs of BMW, Porsche, MB and others:

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil...il_1_0W-40.aspx

The real problem here is whether or not you fall under the car maker definition of "severe" service, which usually requires a 3mo/3,000mi OCI.

And the irony here is that if you go to a dealer and have them maintain your Prius with their cheap generic 5W-30, you will have the full protection of the Powertrain warranty. However, once that Powertrain warranty is up, and you still have your Prius, what happens if your ICE is a sludged-up mess? Oops! TFB you're SOL.

What I intend to do is to use Mobil 1 0W-30 but to run it to the maximum interval I'm allowed while maintaining Powertrain warranty. If I still have the car off warranty, once a year or every 16,000km like in Europe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid\";p=\"68511)</div>

I wish i could properly test my oil. i would like to know how far the oil will go[/b]

You can have UOA (Used Oil Analysis) performed on the oil you drain. I'm sure there must be labs in your area that perform this test? You're in a very major urban area. The UOA will tell you about things like glycol contamination (Coolant leaks), excessive moisture, fuel dilution (Leaky injector or other fuel problem), and TBN level (How much life the oil has in it).

Once you do several UOA's, the testing lab will make recommendations on when to change the oil. You'd be surprised at the results, some folks operating under "ideal" highway and climatic conditions can dramatically extend their OCI.

[V8Cobrakid]

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try. Change it at 10k maybe or possibly sooner. Get it tested and see what they say. If i can run longer, i'll run longer.

As for the oil filter. You mented to used the "tall" one. I don't use toyota filters or oil. I purchased the K&N filter. It's kinda small... hmm.

[bozebuurman]

I live in Holland and I'm now driving a French car (Renault). It is custom for this car to change oil every 30.000 km (= aprox. 18.500 miles).

btw I just bought a Prius

Greetz from Holland

[Charles Suitt]

Actually, I use Mobil-1 5W30 BUT I would *NOT* go 15K miles between oil changes. The cost of an oil/filter change is too low to risk engine problems.

[aileronguy]

I have a FOrd Escape and Focus that have been running Amsoil for years. Thye have survived wonderfully, and I bet this is Mobil's answer to the technology already present in the oil industry.

The Escape even ran 15 miles w/o any oil in it at all...the 2 mechs I took it to couldn't find anything wrong with it!!

[aileronguy]

what about the oil filter? how often does IT have to be changed??