The Volt: GM is, slowly but surely, screwing it up...

[usbseawolf2000]

I just want to add a note that in Volt, combustion engine and electric motor does not have synergy. They are mutually exclusive because Volt use the ICE when the battery pack is run down.

There are tasks that combustion engine do better than the electric motor w/ battery and vice versa. Heating cabin is something the combustion engine clearly do better than the battery pack! Use the ICE to heat up the cabin! Charge the battery if there are excess energy. Hybrid 101 man!

I can give Volt's powertrain this name: Dual Engine Asynergy Drive

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by Chrome

Yes, 400lbs. The Prius' batteries aren't required to do what the Volt's have to do. The Volt is an electric car. The Prius is a gas car with a supplemental battery/electric motor. It's absurd of you to compare battery weights between these two vehicles.

I was under the impression Li-Ion was denser to the point that it's a LOT more powerful than the NiMH hybrid of the same size. I guess given that density = m/v and v stays the same, then m has to increase because rho increased. Is that why it's 400lbs?

or do you have a better explanation? How heavy were the EV1 NiMH batteries?

[usbseawolf2000]

Prius' NiMH pack has 1.31 kWh of energy and weights 99 lbs.

Volt has 16 kWh Lithium pack that is expected to weight about 400 lbs. That is more than 12x energy but it only weights 4x more.

You can say Volt' pack has 3x more energy for the same weight as Prius' pack. Even with that Lithium advantage, a lot of compromises has to be made to run the car for 30 miles in real world with creature comfort.

That's why Toyota has been saying we need a break-thru in battery technology. Toyota has li-ion tech that double the energy compare to a typical li-ion. The price also has to come down as well to become suitable for mass market.

[DeadPhish]

Another point that was pointedly pointed out to me was that the ICE requires a fuel source which will be sitting in some tank for some length of time. The hope that the Volt with a 40 mi range will eliminate the need for petro-fuel is very pie in the sky. The fuel would soon go stale and gum up the ICE if it was never used.

Thus this counter-efficient situation will likely have to occur. The driver will have to find a route or trip which is longer than 40 miles...significantly longer.... in order to deplete the fuel in the tank so that it can be replaced with fresh fuel.

[patsparks]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

400lbs?!?! God... and the Prius is 99lbs? <sigh> GM... That's why you never criticize people in life if you don't know what you're talking about.

"Oh the Prius is too complicated, the Malibu is simple" --> We have made a hybrid which as four clutches

"Hybrids haul around unnecessary weight which is useless on the highway. Their battery packs are heavy" --> We have a Volt with a 400lb battery x2


I agree with him. It's the cost of the aluminium monocoque that drove up the cost of the Insight.

The Prius has a battery only range of 2 miles or maybe 5 miles if you put a quails egg on the accelerator and the Volt is aiming for a electric only range of 30 miles or there abouts so how small did you expect the battery pack to be?

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

Another point that was pointedly pointed out to me was that the ICE requires a fuel source which will be sitting in some tank for some length of time. The hope that the Volt with a 40 mi range will eliminate the need for petro-fuel is very pie in the sky. The fuel would soon go stale and gum up the ICE if it was never used.

Thus this counter-efficient situation will likely have to occur. The driver will have to find a route or trip which is longer than 40 miles...significantly longer.... in order to deplete the fuel in the tank so that it can be replaced with fresh fuel.

Couldn't one just put a product like Sta-Bil in the tank. It should allow the fuel to last for 12 months. Replacing the fuel once a year is no worse than changing the oil every 6 months.

But heck, if you're the type that hasn't used any gasoline in 2-3 months, it might be best to drain the tank and only put fuel in for longer trips.

[DaveinOlyWA]

*yawn*... it almost seems like everyone here is surprised that gm isnt putting up what they promised. when the volt was announced, about 90% immediately dismissed it as complete hype or total BS.

the other 10% expressed cautious optimism. iow... no one really believed the volt would happen... so what has changed to make anyone think differently?

to be honest with ya. i was in the "10%" crowd and i still am. a 4 seater would be a bummer, but i would still be happy with it. i could make do if everything else was as advertised.

but couple that with a $40,000 price tag, dropping stats, gm's legendary ability to take a good thing and destroy it and to be honest with ya...

i'm still in the "10%" category... but i am not (and didnt) hold my breath for anything that has to do with gm.

[rpiereck]

Originally Posted by micheal

I hate to say I told you so, so I won't do it. It is unfortunate that the vehicle that we hope to buy no one is making (yet). For me it is a hybrid minivan or Mazda 5/MPV size vehicle (dangit it Toyota bring over the Estima!). I'm not as anxious for an EV yet, since we currently rent and would have a hard time plugging in at night, but it sure seems like we are going to have wait awhile.

I was in Japan recently and I saw a Toyota Estima Hybrid, which is a full size minivan, same size as a Previa, so Toyota does make Hybrid minivans, they just need to bring it to the US...

Toyota Estima Hybrid 2008 new model in Japan

[hill]

Most recent screw up:

They're hinting that the limited first run may require them to only lease them . . . at least in the beginning . . . de ja vu

[apriusfan]

Originally Posted by hill

Most recent screw up:

They're hinting that the limited first run may require them to only lease them . . . at least in the beginning . . . de ja vu

If the terms of the lease require the car to be returned (no purchase option), then guess what? It is the EV2!