The Volt: GM is, slowly but surely, screwing it up...

[jayman]

Originally Posted by RonH

No, but while you were there did you see the thousands dying in a heat wave in France?

If you mean the record-setting heatwave that went all across Europe in summer of 2003, no I missed that

I guess you don't travel much. Air conditioning, especially in private homes and apartments, is very rare in most European countries. Unless you're along the Med (Extreme southern France) there really is no need for A/C in France.

The average summer temp in a city like Paris is mid 70's, F. Average low around 60 in summer. The record breaking heatwave had temps of 100-105 F with very high humidity. Even most public and emergency buildings don't have A/C

On the other hand, in cities like Toronto, New York, Miami, Detroit, and CHicago, there are emergency cooling centers for extreme summer heat. That could be anything from a civic center or other public building, to "mobile" cooling centers like transit buses or ambulances with extra A/C onboard. A lot of elderly and poor folks cannot afford the cost of A/C

We've had dirt-cheap resources for a long time now, so we've become nice and spoiled. In winter our houses are overheated so we can walk around in a tee or tightie-whities. In summer we air condition our homes to the point of doubling as a walk-in fridge

With record high oil prices impacting every sector of our economy and society, that will change

[PriusSport]

I say wait on the Volt. That T-shaped battery pack looks like the A123 Li ion battery based on Li iron phosphate electrodes. It has at least twice the power of a NiMH car battery, and is lightweight and inexpensive. GM is also testing another battery from an independent source, so it's too early to say which battery will be in the Volt.
As for 4 vs 5 seater, I think it's a moot question. The Prius is a four seater unless you count the rear center armrest as a full seat--which it is not.
Price is a more critical question. They have to be in the mid-20s or lower pricewise to sell enough Volts to make it worthwhile.

[RonH]

Originally Posted by jayman

If you mean the record-setting heatwave that went all across Europe in summer of 2003, no I missed that

I guess you don't travel much.

Well, I have been all over socal on my bike. But tell me again, how do measure civilization? Does it include making the trains run on time?

[daniel]

Originally Posted by RonH

Well, I have been all over socal on my bike. But tell me again, how do measure civilization? Does it include making the trains run on time?

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer this one: I measure civilization by how it treats the weakest of its members, and how it behaves toward the weakest of its neighbors. Here in the U.S., homeless people, many of them mentally ill, and many of those mentally ill because of what they experienced while serving in the U.S. military, are left to freeze or starve on the streets, as there are not enough shelters, and many of the existent shelters are intolerable. Many children do not get routine medical care because their parents have no insurance and cannot afford to pay. And whenever we have a quarrel with another nation, because we want its oil, or because it will not allow our corporations to exploit its people and resources, we drop bombs on its cities, killing its men, women, and children.

Therefore the U.S. does not qualify as civilized, in my judgement. "Civilized" and "industrialized" are not synonymous. Also, the ability to provide abundant consumer goods to the middle class, is not a definition of "civilized." And while punctual trains are convenient, they do not participate in the definition of civilized.

[RonH]

Fair enough. So it doesn't depend on whether the big cities are being clogged with quad cabs or fiats. Just asking.

[daniel]

Originally Posted by RonH

Fair enough. So it doesn't depend on whether the big cities are being clogged with quad cabs or fiats. Just asking.

The term I would use for a country that allows its cities to be clogged with gas-guzzlers is not "uncivilized." The term i would use is "idiotic." But if course a country can be uncivilized and idiotic, and a fully-industrialized country that is uncivilized (as defined in my earlier post) is probably also idiotic. So the U.S. of A. is both uncivilized and idiotic. Doubly idiotic: once for being uncivilized when it can afford to be civilized, and once for driving idiotic cars. (And probably many more times over again, for many other reasons, unrelated to the subjects raised in this thread.) But no, to answer your question IMO our being an uncivilized country is not precisely because we drive idiotic cars.

Other folks will certainly have other opinions. I speak for nobody but myself.