Chevy Volt and the cost of bravery.

[galaxee]

so much for being a car that everyone could afford.

[orracle]

I don't remember the GM engineer at Hybridfest discussing the price. Of course, she was pretty busy telling us how "awesome" the support from GM was and fending off questions from the crowd.

[steveholtam]

I dig the Volt and really hope that economies of scale will get the price where it needs to be. I don't see this car as a Us vs. Them. If the Volt acheives its goal of going 40 miles a day using zero gas, then we all win.

And competition is good for Prius owners. It will push Toyota, and others to keep innovating. My next car will be a plug in hybrid, and I will look at what the market has to offer at that time (2011 ish).

[TonyPSchaefer]

Originally Posted by steveholtam

I dig the Volt and really hope that economies of scale will get the price where it needs to be. I don't see this car as a Us vs. Them. If the Volt acheives its goal of going 40 miles a day using zero gas, then we all win.

And competition is good for Prius owners. It will push Toyota, and others to keep innovating. My next car will be a plug in hybrid, and I will look at what the market has to offer at that time (2011 ish).

There are very few people here, Steve, who will disagree with you on those points.

Rather, what I think people take offense with is the spin of "competition pushing Toyota to innovate." In 1997, Toyota introduced the Prius in Japan. With no American competition they released it in the U.S. in 2000. Again, with no competition, they totally reconstructed the entire vehicle and gave us the GenII in 2004. All that time, the only major manufacturer competing on the hybrid front was Honda. Not a single American-based company to be found. In fact, there is article after article showing how Lutz viewed hybrids as a niche and a fad; they simply don't make economic sense and they aren't for us. Who can forget Bill Ford telling the world that he's a "Muscle Car Guy" and Ford's not interested in hybrids.

Nowadays, however, Ford and GM are touting their hybrid models, their great "improvements" in mileage, and convincing the uneducated public that they are the leaders, the first to come to market with this technology. That's the rub. And when there are news articles such as "2010 Prius: the Volt Wannabe" floating around, those of us who saw the future, realized the need, and joined the revolution years ago get a little peaved.

To recap: competition, good. new technology, good. Even small steps towards a solution. good. Joining the party late but trying to claim a leadership position, bad.

[hill]

Originally Posted by JamesWyatt

Lol, that's just inflation because it's been in development so long!

Longer than most will ever know . . . how does nearly 40 years sound? Here's a scan you can download & enlarge. Then read the date on the bottom.

http://usera.imagecave.com/w4abj/Hyb...l-Lec-1969.jpg

[jayman]

Hill

To be sure, electronics were Stone Age compared to now. As far as concepts, one has to wonder just how out of touch GM corporate management is.

[a priori]

Originally Posted by TonyPSchaefer

To recap: competition, good. new technology, good. Even small steps towards a solution. good. Joining the party late but trying to claim a leadership position, bad.

I'll "worry" about the claim to leadership position if GM brings the Volt to market but sells 2,000.

I don't have much confidence in GM, though I sincerely hope to be proven wrong. How great would it be if this car really would work as advertised?

Cost, on the other hand, is a real issue. If they had this ready for market today, then I can see Congress giving a very sizable tax break. By the time it is on the sales floor, Toyota, Honda and others will have plug-ins available, and how does Congress justify the tax break for only the Chevy plug-in?

It's a good thing for GM they haven't been advertising this car as a Cadillac. There is no way they'll be able to use anything but the basest trim. (And people complain about the Integrities and the minimum seat adjustments in the Prius!!!)

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by a priori

I'll "worry" about the claim to leadership position if GM brings the Volt to market but sells 2,000.

Bingo!

The enthusiasts keep exclaiming the "game changer" label, yet refuse to acknowledge what that actually means.

To really make a difference, it must appeal to the masses. That means a car who's destiny is to become everyday common, a technology which isn't special because so many use it. In other words, a good old reliable appliance. We're talking numbers so large they become the business. Then it earns the label.

Realistically, that kind of volume is at least 25% of an automaker's annual production. No paradigm-shift is going to happen if quantity is tiny. They must seriously commit resources, accepting a no-look-back approach. Toyota is preparing for that, but even reaching the 10% mark is still a few years away. So this nonsense about GM becoming some type of overnight sensation is quite unrealistic.

Study history. It's filled with examples of painfully slow transitions.

.

[malorn]

Originally Posted by john1701a

Bingo!

The enthusiasts keep exclaiming the "game changer" label, yet refuse to acknowledge what that actually means.

To really make a difference, it must appeal to the masses. That means a car who's destiny is to become everyday common, a technology which isn't special because so many use it. In other words, a good old reliable appliance. We're talking numbers so large they become the business. Then it earns the label.

Realistically, that kind of volume is at least 25% of an automaker's annual production. No paradigm-shift is going to happen if quantity is tiny. They must seriously commit resources, accepting a no-look-back approach. Toyota is preparing for that, but even reaching the 10% mark is still a few years away. So this nonsense about GM becoming some type of overnight sensation is quite unrealistic.

Study history. It's filled with examples of painfully slow transitions.

.

The way that the Volt will be a game-changer for GM is in changing the public perception. Remember the history of the Prius, toyota was gaining all kinds of accolades even though the sales numbers were small.

2001-15,556
2002-20,119

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by malorn

The way that the Volt will be a game-changer for GM is in changing the public perception. Remember the history of the Prius, toyota was gaining all kinds of accolades even though the sales numbers were small.

2001-15,556
2002-20,119

Accolades!!! What the heck are you talking about?

My blogs from back then document the very the opposite, fiercely negative attacks on Prius. The green image didn't emerge until several years later.

Of course, perception doesn't make a difference anyway. Cleaner air and less dependence on oil requires actual change.

.