Chevy Volt and the cost of bravery.

[a priori]

Originally Posted by malorn

The way that the Volt will be a game-changer for GM is in changing the public perception. Remember the history of the Prius, toyota was gaining all kinds of accolades even though the sales numbers were small.

2001-15,556
2002-20,119

If that is the way to do it, then GM will need to change its own game plan. The latest I read was that GM planned to have sales of the Volt at 100,000 annually by 2012. I don't think a [reasonable] game plan looks like:

2010 - 15,000
2011 - 20,000
2012 - 100,000

If GM is going to do this, they must be all in. They need 40,000 to 50,000 in year one (2010), followed by 60,000 to 70,000 in 2011, if there is any hope of making it to 100,000 in 2012.

More power to GM if they can do it, but, as John said, it won't happen without a complete and total commitment. The only way to make these sales happen is for the car to be what everybody wants or "has to have." The car has to look good, perform as advertised and be the right cost. If gas is going to be $10/gal in 2012 (and I KNOW you don't believe it will be), then $40,000 might be a bargain price for the Volt. If gas stays at $4/gal (or drops, as you've suggested), then it better hit the market at the Prius price point or lower. Remember, the Prius willl be PHEV by then.

[bedrock8x]

I totally agree. The Li-Ion battery pack price is not there yet until 2015. Then under $40k Volt is possible.

Originally Posted by Godiva

[prediction] Volt 2013 $56,000, limited to 500 nationwide, Toyota Prius Plug-in 2013 $34,000, three month wait.[/prediction]

[jeffreykb]

Originally Posted by malorn

The way that the Volt will be a game-changer for GM is in changing the public perception. Remember the history of the Prius, toyota was gaining all kinds of accolades even though the sales numbers were small.

2001-15,556
2002-20,119

Please define "accolades" and "game changer"? The Prius was heckled for a few years...like the so-called useless personal computers of the 1980's. From where I'm standing, the price of oil is the "game changer" for the auto industry...not an expensive hybrid sedan. America loves their SUVs...if they can afford the fuel.

GM is attempting to "leap frog" the industry with the Volt. At $40K+ and 2+ years from sales, it is premature to call the Volt a "game changer". Another so called "game changer" may emerge before the Volt hits the streets...and less expensive.

You seem to say perception is the "game". As most folks know, Toyota builds gas guzzlers and econo boxes like GM. The common perception...GM makes great BIG vehicles and Toyota makes great small vehicles.

GM is late to the so-called "stop gap game" by choice. GM took a chance that fuel cells were on the horizon. I've been hearing fuel cells are just 10 years away for years.

[taggart]

The $7,000 "tax break" to me amounts to a $7,000 "subsidy" in my opinion. If GM thought they could get a $20,000 "tax break", then they would price the car ar $61,000.

I want to see them commit to something like this without the help, just as Toyota did. There were tax breaks on hybrids but the Prius breaks are long gone and sales are as strong as production will allow.

It's a long slow curve but GM and the others should make their own way.

[FL_Prius_Driver]

What is wrong with pricing the Volt to make a profit out of the gate? Teslas that are small enough to drive under semi's are selling over $100k and sold out for years. Senselessly big SUVs sell for $75k and most of that $$ is for pure ego. Make the Volt an very expensive car that delivers it's promise with great support. It would be the new age Rolls Royce. There is a gigantic market for this. There is a very transient, small market for a low cost bomb that loses money and makes GM look even more idiotic.

The initial cars will be expensive to make. Most Americans know this. There are quite a few willing to spend the money for a first rate GM game changer.

[a priori]

Originally Posted by FL_Prius_Driver

What is wrong with pricing the Volt to make a profit out of the gate?

Nothing at all. Of course, GM does need to offer it at a sales price low enough to bring 100,000 buyers to the showroom each year.

Originally Posted by FL_Prius_Driver

Teslas that are small enough to drive under semi's are selling over $100k and sold out for years.

Sold out? Yes, but at a rate of no more than 10,000 per year.

Originally Posted by FL_Prius_Driver

Make the Volt an very expensive car that delivers it's promise with great support. It would be the new age Rolls Royce. There is a gigantic market for this. There is a very transient, small market for a low cost bomb that loses money and makes GM look even more idiotic.

??? New age Rolls Royce? Comparing the Volt, which needs to be mass-produced, to a 100 per year automotive classic just does not make sense to me. There is NO "gigantic market" involving any Rolls Royce, and there will not be for any Volt that costs more than $45,000.

In terms of the "low cost bomb" and its transient market, I think GM has had its share of cars that have found that groove.

[TonyPSchaefer]

Originally Posted by jeffreykb

Please define "accolades" and "game changer"?

Here are a few of the heaping accolades that we Prius owners get to enjoy on a daily basis:
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
Hybrid Cars Negative Environmental Impact New Car Blog
Nickel, Hybrid Batteries, Canada, Environmental Disaster? | Hybrid Cars
Green Party of Canada | Hummer more environmentally friendly than hybrid Prius? | www.greenparty.ca
How green is your ride? - AutoWeek Magazine
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
Toyota Prius Drivers Fuel Environmental Catastrophe Thunderpig’s Mirror

And let us not forget all the accolades Malorn has heaped on all of us for driving American car dealerships out of business and shutting down Detroit.

Oh yes! We are just basking in the light of praise and glory!

[malorn]

Originally Posted by TonyPSchaefer

Here are a few of the heaping accolades that we Prius owners get to enjoy on a daily basis:
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
Hybrid Cars Negative Environmental Impact New Car Blog
Nickel, Hybrid Batteries, Canada, Environmental Disaster? | Hybrid Cars
Green Party of Canada | Hummer more environmentally friendly than hybrid Prius? | www.greenparty.ca
How green is your ride? - AutoWeek Magazine
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
Toyota Prius Drivers Fuel Environmental Catastrophe Thunderpig’s Mirror

And let us not forget all the accolades Malorn has heaped on all of us for driving American car dealerships out of business and shutting down Detroit.

Oh yes! We are just basking in the light of praise and glory!

You sound so bitter Tony? I am not concerned about the dealership because Ford and GM dealership closings are simply replaced by import dealerships so there really is no job los there. I am concerned about the Design, engineering, management, production and transportation jobs going overseas. I read a fascinating fact the other day, in the 1960's GM employed more than 85,000 in Flint, not Detroit, Flint. To put that in perspective Toyota claims to employ 38,000 in all of North America.

[bac]

I'm not buying a GM at any price ..... let alone THAT price!

... Brad

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by malorn

I am concerned about the Design, engineering, management, production and transportation jobs going overseas.

Many place emissions & consumption as a higher priority... knowing that other opportunities will emerge here later as a result.

In other words, they are showing bravery by letting the first round be scored by our allies. After all, when you're in for the long-run, sharing shouldn't be a big deal. We've been innovative before. We can do it again... once this new market is established.

Biting the hand that feeds you makes no sense. Yet, some Volt enthusiasts continue to mock Prius... despite the reality that Prius is contributing heavily to the mass-production of automotive battery-packs.

.