Chevy Volt and the cost of bravery.

[a priori]

Originally Posted by malorn

. . . I am concerned about the Design, engineering, management, production and transportation jobs going overseas. I read a fascinating fact the other day, in the 1960's GM employed more than 85,000 in Flint, not Detroit, Flint. To put that in perspective Toyota claims to employ 38,000 in all of North America.

I don't understand where this interesting fact leads. How many people are employed by GM these days? Does the number have anything to do with the health of the company or the economny?

What is your concern? That management in Japan has a better handle on how to produce cars that Americans want to purchase? That this means American management will lose their jobs, thus putting all of the other folks out of work? All valid concerns, but better management in America might be able to turn that around, don't you think?

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Originally Posted by a priori

Nothing at all. Of course, GM does need to offer it at a sales price low enough to bring 100,000 buyers to the showroom each year.....Sold out? Yes, but at a rate of no more than 10,000 per year.

The Volt is not going to be available at a 100k units a years for quite a few years. The Prius was just as limited in the early years. My high price comment assumed that as volume went up and cost went down, GM would correctly adjust price to keep up the volume sales. (But I did not state this and your comment is correct without this fix.) For both the Prius and Tesla, the companies are trying like mad to get the production capabilities up since money is being lost for every car not produced today. The specific worry I have about GM is that if priced at a lost for many years, the Volt could fail just due to underpricing alone.

Originally Posted by a priori

??? New age Rolls Royce? Comparing the Volt, which needs to be mass-produced, to a 100 per year automotive classic just does not make sense to me. There is NO "gigantic market" involving any Rolls Royce, and there will not be for any Volt that costs more than $45,000.

Your viewpoint is correct. I bungled my intent. I was implying that the "ego" effect resulting from the initial years of the Volt being an exclusive, rare car could sustain the high initial price. Note that the early Lexus autos were very high end autos. Now many of the Lexus's are gussied up regular Toyotas. I was thinking that the Volt could follow in these footsteps.

Originally Posted by a priori

In terms of the "low cost bomb" and its transient market, I think GM has had its share of cars that have found that groove.

I did not bungle that statement.

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Originally Posted by malorn

You sound so bitter Tony? I am not concerned about the dealership because Ford and GM dealership closings are simply replaced by import dealerships so there really is no job los there. I am concerned about the Design, engineering, management, production and transportation jobs going overseas. I read a fascinating fact the other day, in the 1960's GM employed more than 85,000 in Flint, not Detroit, Flint. To put that in perspective Toyota claims to employ 38,000 in all of North America.

There is no joy in honest hardworking people losing their jobs. However, I can only hope that some GM management does get sent overseas. It would equalize the business quite fast.

[AussieOwner]

Originally Posted by malorn

I am concerned about the Design, engineering, management, production and transportation jobs going overseas. I read a fascinating fact the other day, in the 1960's GM employed more than 85,000 in Flint, not Detroit, Flint. To put that in perspective Toyota claims to employ 38,000 in all of North America.

You should read "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. He talks about the whole globalisation issue - the automotive industry is just one where current first world countries are losing out to the newly emerging markets. The key point that he pushes is that you have to constantly re-invent yourself if you wish to move ahead in this new world. So if GM wants to stay in this world, they need to be inovative - the design and engineering teams need to push the new boundaries. With the work that they are doing with the Volt, there is hope for GM.

However, from everything that I have read and seen, management is still back in the old days, they are not being inovative, and it is their decisions that will affect the production people, and ultimately the design and engineering people, because they will not see their work get used, so will move to companies that will use their skills.

I hope that the Volt will be the saviour of GM - because we all will benefit from the inovations used in the car, and there will be yet another small step towards moving us all away from our dependence on oil, but, to me, GM management just will not let it happen - nothing to do with Toyota, or any other manufacturer, it is purely GM management that will kill the car and the jobs.

[a priori]

Originally Posted by FL_Prius_Driver

There is no joy in honest hardworking people losing their jobs. However, I can only hope that some GM management does get sent overseas. It would equalize the business quite fast.

Gotta love it! I needed that laugh!

[pegasusat]

Originally Posted by redhandeddenial

i bet if the volt was 15000 and the prius was 48000 id still buy the prius

my sentiment exactly.

[hill]

Originally Posted by malorn

You sound so bitter Tony? I am not concerned about the dealership because Ford and GM dealership closings are simply replaced by import dealerships so there really is no job los there. I am concerned about the Design, engineering, management, production and transportation jobs going overseas. I read a fascinating fact the other day, in the 1960's GM employed more than 85,000 in Flint, not Detroit, Flint. To put that in perspective Toyota claims to employ 38,000 in all of North America.

Once again malorn does what only he can . . . twist the fact to infer something other than what it really means. The motive? To make Poor GM look inocent, and monster Toyota look evil.

Between 1960 and 2008 there was a magic word left out. Robotics. Next spin, please. BTW, you never told us why you took a break from spinning your spins for a few months.

[donee]

Hmmm,,

The longer they develop the Volt, the more marketing they pay for. That is probably why its going to be $48K. So far, they have to have 100K cars worth of marketing into the Volt.

[JimN]

Originally Posted by hill

Once again malorn does what only he can . . . twist the fact to infer something other than what it really means. The motive? To make Poor GM look inocent, and monster Toyota look evil.

Between 1960 and 2008 there was a magic word left out. Robotics. Next spin, please. BTW, you never told us why you took a break from spinning your spins for a few months.

I was in a Chevy dealer getting the Olds fixed. If it wasn't made in Korea, 23% of everything came from Mexico. Was the work moved to Mexico because of their reputation for high precision work or because of low wages? When production moved south Flint went in the hopper. Flint & Detroit are basically company towns. This is what happens when the company leaves.

[TimBikes]

Originally Posted by hill

Once again malorn does what only he can . . . twist the fact to infer something other than what it really means. The motive? To make Poor GM look inocent, and monster Toyota look evil.
.

Why does either company have to be innocent or evil? Come on people, relax. Accolades to Toyota for building the Prius and same to GM if they can pull off the Volt or change the game in some meaningful way. Fact is, the next 5-10 years in the auto industry are going to be exciting from a technology perspective - and not just because of Toyota.