Has GM overdesigned the Volt: Is a 40-mile all electric range too much?

[sailronin@hotmail.com]

I drive 124 miles round trip to work, the Prius is making a big difference in my fuel costs but it would be great to go at least 40 miles in EV mode. Putting a solar panel on the roof would let the car charge in the parking lot at work. Going 100 would be better but it seems a distant dream for that kind of battery only range.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by TonyPSchaefer

insist that less than 300 miles of battery time is worthless because it means that they will need to be constantly plugging the stupid thing in. They simply want to be able to drive about a week between charges.

Indeed. My usual response is to tell them to imagine how great it would be to have a gasoline-powered cell phone. Instead of all the hassle of conveniently plugging it in at home every day, you could just drive it down to a special charging station every few days. You could then buy a Slurpee, and clean your glasses while you charge it up, and then you're on your way. Oh, and don't forget the oil changes and tuneups!

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by blamy

I don't want to go on a trip and have to stop every 40 / 100 miles to recharge!

Ignoring the politics of your message - you may have missed that this is about a plug-in hybrid. With 40 miles of battery range on a 500 mile trip, you don't have to stop at 40 miles - you just have to start burning gasoline.

And one other point I like to bring up in long range discussions... are there really people out there who want to drive 500 (even 200) miles without stopping? Not me!

[patsparks]

Darrel, on a recent trip I drove my Prius 2700km in under 30 hours, so yes, there are people who want to drive 500 miles non stop. Another way to put it, and I discovered this when I rode about 2000km one way on my motorbike, I would rather stop in a pleasant place with a view than a petrol station every 200km.
I wouldn't mind a scenic parking bays with charge ports, at 200km intervals along major routes and a 15 minute charge time. That isn't usually the case here, sometimes it is 350km between towns.

[Tideland Prius]

I put nearly 900km/day on my cross country trip.

[PriuStorm]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

I put nearly 900km/day on my cross country trip.

Years ago when we drove cross-country, we drove about 850 miles per day. We had one long day where we topped 1000 miles.

On a separate topic, since we are talking/dreaming about new infrastructure for efficient recharging, I would like to dream about a highway that allows you to just use electricity as you drive.

Sure, you have a battery pack in your car for when you get off the 'electric' highway and aren't connected. The system would charge your account for what you use by a fancy meter in your car (like a FasTrak charges your account when you cross the Bay Bridge), and without the meter, you don't have access to the power (just like with FasTrak).

Voila, range problem solved. For city/back roads, you have 100 mile battery range and have to manually charge at stations or in your garage (until the infrastructure develops further), but for long range highway travel, you just go until you run out of powered road.

One would think something like this would be possible in today's time and age. It's kind of like building the 'hydrogen highway'. We already have buses in cities that are electric. Rather than having the connection be overhead, I think it should be between the chassis and the ground somehow. And it could start out like a 'special' lane, kind of like the HOV lanes are now.

[Fibb222]

All of you writing about how 300 to 500 mile EVs would be great forget that even when/if batteries are capable of such a feat, the grid could never provide that much power to the batteries in a reasonable amount of time. It would take days to charge. The alternative is convenientely placed battery swap stations and navigational software to help you find them in time, like Better Place is designing. Then a 125 mile battery is all we need, even for road trips. What we really need (and will get in a few years) is a cheaper and more reliable battery - we already have all the distance we need.

[patsparks]

Originally Posted by Fibb222

All of you writing about how 300 to 500 mile EVs would be great forget that even when/if batteries are capable of such a feat, the grid could never provide that much power to the batteries in a reasonable amount of time. It would take days to charge. The alternative is convenientely placed battery swap stations and navigational software to help you find them in time, like Better Place is designing. Then a 125 mile battery is all we need, even for road trips. What we really need (and will get in a few years) is a cheaper and more reliable battery - we already have all the distance we need.

So if the grid can't charge the batteries in the car what will charge the change-over batteries?

[miscrms]

Yes. I've been arguing that very point for quite some time.

Sure I'd love an EV with a bazillion mile range. However, few people would be able to afford the bazillion dollar price tag attached to it. At current battery prices, the 40 mile range adds about $20-25k to the cost of the Volt. That puts it in a price range that few people will be able to afford (even with the tax credit). If people don't buy many, volumes won't go up, and battery prices won't come down. That will severely limit the amount of impact the Volt will have on our national fuel consumption, and eventually give GM a good reason to cancel it due to poor demand.

Meanwhile, a shorter range PHEV would be a lot easier for many people to afford. It would also make more sense for most people. Unless you are completely running the battery down every day, you are paying a lot of money for battery capacity you don't need. This is one of the big differences between EVs and PHEVs in my mind. EVs need extra range "just in case". PHEVs don't, thats what the ICE is for. Since every kWh of battery used equates to a certain volume of gasoline saved, you are getting the most possible bang for your buck if finish every day with a flat battery. Thats one of the reasons I see short range PHEVs as a logical next step on the road from ICE to BEVs. As long as they are affordable and put a noticeable dent in your fuel bill, they will drive demand for batteries eventually making long range PHEVs and BEVs available at an attractive price-point.

The only way I can see at the current time to accelerate this process is a major investment by the government to bring batteries into high volume production sooner.

Rob

[rubberpill2002]

Originally Posted by Fibb222

Interesting read:

Climate Progress Blog Archive Has GM overdesigned the Volt: Is a 40-mile all electric range too much?

opinions?

Personally, I feel that the volt is perfect. It has a really nice design and for most will be gas free. Many will not use the entire 40 mile range, but that is the point. This car is not meant to only drive to work and back, you want to also go to the grocery store, movies, out to eat, and other places AFTER work, the 40 mile range takes that into consideration as well. My wife and I drive 4 miles to and from work and sometimes make a lot of side trips along the way, the volt will be PERFECT for us. Unless toyota comes out with a similar option (I do not mean a plug in Prius with 65 MPG) we will be trading in our current Prius for the Volt. I believe it is a fantastic car, and if GM is serious about it, they will easier surpass Toyota as the greenest major automaker (in the marketing sense; there are other greener automakers).