Has GM overdesigned the Volt: Is a 40-mile all electric range too much?

[Fibb222]

Originally Posted by patsparks

So if the grid can't charge the batteries in the car what will charge the change-over batteries?

If the batteries are 100-125 mile range than the grid can charge them whether they are in a swap station or in your EV, but people shouldn't ever expect that we'll ever have 300 mile batteries that charge in minutes while they wait. That is an amount of power that the grid would not be able to provide that quickly - at least not in this century.

We've all heard how our standard of living is unsustainable, well having a vehicle that can go 500 miles without refueling is one thing we should be willing to give up if it meant that our overall transportation costs will be low and our impact on the environment will be low as well.

It's not much to give up really. With the Better Place infrastructure, the battery swap itself will take just a few minutes.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by Fibb222

If the batteries are 100-125 mile range than the grid can charge them whether they are in a swap station or in your EV, but people shouldn't ever expect that we'll ever have 300 mile batteries that charge in minutes while they wait. That is an amount of power that the grid would not be able to provide that quickly - at least not in this century.

I have serious misgivings about the battery swap idea. The first and biggest one is that since the battery is the huge expense of an EV right now... doing this swap thing means that you'll need to have what? 10 or 20 or 100x as many batteries as there are cars? And keep them distributed properly? Just about an impossible task. Want do know what *would* work? Fast charging through "dump chages" from a capacitor bank that is relatively slow charged 24/7. The cars can be charged very quickly. You don't need to be piping the charge current in while the car is parked there. Just have it on hand in the caps. Ah... but this is all fine tuning. There are MANY uses for 100 mile EVs today that won't cramp anybody's style.

We've all heard how our standard of living is unsustainable, well having a vehicle that can go 500 miles without refueling is one thing we should be willing to give up if it meant that our overall transportation costs will be low and our impact on the environment will be low as well.

Amen.

It's not much to give up really. With the Better Place infrastructure, the battery swap itself will take just a few minutes.

Or the capacitor dump charge which I think might have a chance of actually happening. You'll notice that ABP has really backed off the battery swap idea of late. Really, this just can't work. Great concept... but how pays for, and how do we make and distribute way more battery packs than cars?

[zcat3]

I think 40 mile all electric is just about perfect. This would allow for most people to get done what they need to get done in a day without having to worry about recharging. As for those of us with longer daily commutes (like me with 28 miles each way), well hopefully we could charge at work - in which case this car covers up to an 80 mile R/T commute as well. If this car comes up as advertised, I will probably buy my first GM car ever (unless Tesla's S Sedan is also about to be released).

[JSH]

I wonder why people are still thinking that the ideal solution for traveling 500 miles in a day is a car. It really sucks and there are much better and faster ways to get were you are going. After traveling in Europe on their excellent rail system I now realize that driving is a horrible way to travel long distances. Who want to spend hours staring at the road and concentrating on driving. On the train you can eat, read, watch TV, sleep, etc and still get were you are going faster than driving.

The US needs to wake up and realize that the car no longer equals freedom.

[DaveinOlyWA]

Originally Posted by blamy

I would think that a 300 to 400 mile range would be good and 500 even better. I don't want to go on a trip and have to stop every 40 / 100 miles to recharge! If any oil companies are sitting on battery technology then I think it is time for a CHANGE to quote someone who doesn't really seem to understand the meaning of the word! Allow the technology to be used for the good of the public and the country (not to mention the world) and screw the patents. They should only be good for a short amount of years anyways!

so in the past year, how many times have you taken a trip?

[hyo silver]

Rail is a wonderful way to go. Even in Canada, where the passenger trains are of 1954 vintage. I haven't been to Europe, but I hear the trains actually run on schedule, and rival airlines for city to city travel times.

[DaveinOlyWA]

to be honest with ya, all those drawbacks for an EV is valid, but still its cherrypicking. sure for that trip you take with the family 3-5 times a year, the EV wont work... but what about your daily needs...so what the score

daily: yes, 600 (sure multiple trips in a day!@!)
longer trips:no 10 ...

ok so score is 600 to 10....well that is not acceptable is it now~!~!... need to get that percentage to acceptable levels. but how?? heck lets face it, it all boils down to money. make EV's so cheap that no one would say no. cheap enough to make it a spare car and make gas so expensive that that spare car is used for every possible trip it can do

battery swapping is something that is being pushed and pushed hard and for niche situations, i can see it working. huge park and rides in satellite locations with an array of EV's sitting there where you only need use your NEV to get there. park then jump into highway capable EV to commute to work where you plug in. the leasing for this option will be much cheaper than paying $6 a gallon for gas (which of course includes a $2 per gallon gas tax to pay for EV program. then again $7 gas is ok...kick that tax to THREE BUCKS YA!!)

a huge automated computer network where you plan your trips and post into the database so a battery with your name on it is reserved for you. since you are leasing, there is no issue with getting lemon battery (naturally monitoring systems will be in place to provide early detection of any possible failure with additional batteries stored at various small wind and solar farms in the more desolate areas)

but leasing is another hurdle to overcome,heck do you like leasing?? i dont. i BUY!! period, but i have money (with careful planning, working OT and skrimping that is!!) so it will only be an option probably geared towards lower income people who cant really afford one car much less two (ya know, the ones who circulate thru the court systems for no insurance tickets?? cmon, we all know a few of em!!)

but one thing is for certain, EV's will be here and fast if we only make it happen. that was proven in the 90's and it can be done today only with much better results. just start writing the laws...

lets face it.. (ya this AGAIN!!) GM does not provide green tech because it does not know how, it doesnt because it simply has decided not to

[Fibb222]

Originally Posted by JSH

I wonder why people are still thinking that the ideal solution for traveling 500 miles in a day is a car. It really sucks and there are much better and faster ways to get were you are going. After traveling in Europe on their excellent rail system I now realize that driving is a horrible way to travel long distances. Who want to spend hours staring at the road and concentrating on driving. On the train you can eat, read, watch TV, sleep, etc and still get were you are going faster than driving.

The US needs to wake up and realize that the car no longer equals freedom.

Good points..

[DaveinOlyWA]

as far as driving, well maybe i getting old. but when i was younger i used to enjoy road trips, driving for hours and hours just to see different places. but last summer on trip up Oregon Coast, great drive, scenery but if it wasnt for those stops we took every hour or two, i would have been pretty tired of driving and i only did about half the driving!!

but we have a choice, change what we do or suffer the consequences of our actions

[JSH]

Originally Posted by DaveinOlyWA

to be honest with ya, all those drawbacks for an EV is valid, but still its cherrypicking. sure for that trip you take with the family 3-5 times a year, the EV wont work... but what about your daily needs...so what the score........

It is the same logic that people use to justify driving a full-size, crew-cab pickup as a commuting vehicle. Yes, 99% of the time they are just driving back and forth to work or taking the kids to soccer, etc, etc. BUT, what about that 1% of the time they need a truck. They might buy some plywood at Lowes or move a kid to college.

We got rid of our truck back in 2002. Since then I have needed a truck 4 times. Once I borrowed a friend's, twice I rented from Enterprise, and once I just paid the store to deliver the item. Not owning a truck has cost me ~$150 for rentals and delivery fees in 6 years. On the other hand not owning a truck has saved me $14,000 in fuel.

If we had a 100 mile EV my wife and I would need to rent a car about 10 times a year.