The Volt will Jolt our Power Grid....

[fuzzy1]

It's only fa[i]r to point out that the French are still getting an initial permanent waste disposal site ready. So while the front end is impressive, the ugly back end still has a lot of warts.

The "back end" of fossil fuel waste (CO2) disposal isn't looking any better anymore.

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Originally Posted by fuzzy1

The "back end" of fossil fuel waste (CO2) disposal isn't looking any better anymore.

Heck, the "front end" (mining) is as ugly as ever as well. If you take a snapshot of what is happening throughout the US, this is what you will find:

1) Utilities and many industry groups pushing the governments (state and national) to support building new nuclear power plants.....and unable to find any financing. Right now this creates a quandry for the utilities. To raise the money themselves, they must really hammer electric rates up front with state government permission or ask the government to provide/insure the loan. (Not a good time to ask.)

2) Utilities wanting to build more coal plants are really being pressured hard to solve the sulfur, CO2, and waste ash aspects as part of the design up front.

3) Natural Gas plants have no assurance that natural gas prices will remain stable.

4) Solar and wind plants are getting quite a bit of private sector money since the plant only take a year or less to build, and the electric cost is very close to utility values now.......and this will only go down while the nuclear and coal cost will only go up. The number of projects in the works is staggering.

Economically, the threshold to renewable energy is being crossed in this decade.....and that's the threshold that matters.

[adric22]

Seeing the headline of this thread made me think to myself, "Geee.. It is the EV-1 all over again, the oil-companies must be busy spreading propaganda again!"

First of all, there is very little truth in the statement about our electric grid not being able to handle it..

But more importantly, nobody is suggesting that we'll wake up one morning and suddenly have millions of cars plugged into the grid. I imagine we'll start adding a thousand per month for the first few years, then maybe several thousand. But, that is going to be spread out all over the US, not just in one city. So even if there are 1,000 a month being sold, that might work out to be just a handfull in each city. I'm sure the city's power grid can handle a few electric cars being plugged in.

The electric grid will have plenty of time to grow to support any additional demand.

[Mike Dimmick]

Indeed. After eight years of hybrids being available in the US, there are maybe 2 million in total? These are cars that require no infrastructure changes whatever. There is literally no cost (barring cost of acquisition) to migrate to hybrids. We're supposed to believe that moves to charge-depleting series hybrids will happen overnight?

[ljbad4life]

a simple cost effective solution to brown outs would be to have a photovoltaic panels installed on your property ( will lower you bills and provide power for ev charging). I feel like only 40 miles of ev (up to 40 miles) will force everyone to constantly plug it in (meaning everyday) while maybe a 100 mile range, people will wait to charge it when its cheapest.

[darelldd]

This is one of the more compelling non-issues - as has been pointed out several times. You simply make it cost-advantageous to plug in during off-peak hours. The car will have a charge timer, so you just set it for midnight and plug it in. No draw happens when the AC units are running. If you REALLY want to charge during peak time, then you pay lots of money for it. That's the American way, after all.

Of course this item, and many more, are on my list of "why EVs won't work."
http://evnut.com/docs/evs-wont_work.doc

The bigger question is why are we letting everybody turn on their AC units during peak time with no cost penalty. I dare say that there are more AC units in this country than there will be EVs for many, many years. Let's control the big stuff, not worry about the piddly stuff that already has controls built in!

Oh, and I love the shot on Obama. It is HIS fault that GM is building a loss-leader car to save itself? Nice. this project was started well before Obama was even a twinkle in the democrats' eye.

[jayman]

Originally Posted by darelldd

Oh, and I love the shot on Obama. It is HIS fault that GM is building a loss-leader car to save itself? Nice. this project was started well before Obama was even a twinkle in the democrats' eye.

Oh c'mon now. Never waste an opportunity to spread Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

Much like how a certain pedophile drug using pervert windbag radio talk show host - who does not even dignify having his name mentioned - will poke fun at people with Parkinson's, people who drive "hybreed" cars, etc

[hill]

Originally Posted by darelldd

This is one of the more compelling non-issues - as has been pointed out several times. You simply make it cost-advantageous to plug in during off-peak hours. The car will have a charge timer, so you just set it for midnight and plug it in. No draw happens when the AC units are running. If you REALLY want to charge during peak time, then you pay lots of money for it. That's the American way, after all.
. . . . . . . . . .

What?
You mean all 100 million of us aren't going out on the same day to buy a plug in? The grid won't collaps? All that hand wringing for nothing
Hey, maybe those of us who are pumping over 7Kwh of PV back onto the grid can still recharge during the day. I'll charge all of you only HALF of what your local power company charges for daytime charging ... anybody ready to come over w/ their extension cord?

[lys]

Originally Posted by hill

What?
You mean all 100 million of us aren't going out on the same day to buy a plug in? The grid won't collaps? All that hand wringing for nothing
Hey, maybe those of us who are pumping over 7Kwh of PV back onto the grid can still recharge during the day. I'll charge all of you only HALF of what your local power company charges for daytime charging ... anybody ready to come over w/ their extension cord?

I'm abashed.
My extension cord is (far) less than 5.000 miles

But... perhaps I can generate some PV to sell to my neighbours.
Nice idea

[icarus]

What you are all missing is the function of smart cars and smart grids.

Remember that PEVs not only have the capacity to buy power from the gird, they also have the capacity to sell back to the grid. It is a (comparatively) simple technology to install to, for example, set up a PEV to buy from the grid at while power is cheap, and sell to the grid when power is expensive, all the while keeping enough charge in the battery to go some given (programmed in) number of miles.

There are several advantages to be had here. The first is, car sit ~23/7, so if they are plugged into the grid most of that 23/7, they become a giant, disaggregated battery bank that can serve two significant functions. The first is by being available to cut the top off of spike/peak demand, it allow utilities to cut the most wasteful generating stations, those idle, spinning units that are spinning just to fuel that spike. The second advantage is this battery "bank" can serve as the 24/7 battery bank for wind/solar, partially solving the sun/no sun, wind/no wind issue, as well as the night time issue.

The technology is not expensive nor exotic. Home scale inverters which allow power to pass in both directions from a source (battery/grid/Solar panel etc are available, common proven technology.

Finally, for those that expound the virtues of Nukes in any fashion, consider this. Until you can convince me that waste can be made inert such that it is not deadly for 1000's of years it is a non starter. The idea of storing it deep in the earth is all well and good, but to think that could be made secure for 1000's of years from every nut job/fanatic who wants to get it and make some sort of statement is nuts. We can't keep anything really safe.

Icarus