The Volt will Jolt our Power Grid....

[jayman]

Sending it on a one-way rocket ride to the sun is not only wasteful, but dangerous too. At the very least, you'd want a launch facility in an isolated area, where if the rocket kerplodes, you're not raining down that high level actinides on people

I really hope they don't use rockets. If they did, a facility like the Johnston Island site would have to be used. No way I'd want them to use Vandenberg or the usual sites

[fuzzy1]

Sending it on a one-way rocket ride to the sun is not only wasteful, ...

Sending anything on a direct one-way ride to the sun is also far more expensive, in terms of rocket fuel required, than a direct one-way ride out of the solar system.

Indirect routes both ways, by playing planetary billiards, are less expensive but more risky.

It also seems wasteful to permanently expel such potentially useful, barely-used fuel resources. Earthbound dumps / repositories would allow future generations to mine and re-use it for the remaining stored energy.

[icarus]

Jay,

I am not arguing that we do nothing, I am arguing we should stop producing the shit until we have a way to deal with it. The idea of embracing MORE nuke facilities is just crazy if we haven't solved this!

To those that want to send it off into space! What, we haven't screwed up our planet enough, we have to ship our shit somewhere else? Isn't that always the way, "I don't have to deal with it, we'll just ship it out of site (sight) out of mind!"

Additionally, do you want a challenger type disaster going on with a few hundred pounds/tons of nuke wast falling who knows where? Boy! sounds like a smart idea to me, (if you are a moron!)

For all the trouble, why can't we invest in a few million MW of PV? At todays cost of ~3watt retail, probably 1/3 that wholesale in MW quantities it really is a no brainer. Couple that with a couple billion dollars to invest in GOOD conservation, a few billion smart grid technology, a few more billions in PEVs and you would have a pretty good start to solving a bunch of different problems. What does a new NUKE plant cost? How many years is it active for? Is there a reason you can't get insurance for a nuke? let along financing to build a new one.

Icarus

[Shawn Clark]

Last nuclear plant cost estimates I've seen for the U.S. were not particularly attractive. I'm old enough that I still recall the cost overruns and "stranded cost" of the last round of nuke buildouts so I have zero confidence in any numbers the industry publishes on the matter....or at least I would start with a 3X multiplier for any cost per kwh they publish.

Since the disposal side of the cost picture has not been adequately factored in, nuke has the same basic problem as fossil fuels (but with other scary problems as well.) It might look cheap to produce once it is built, but nobody is paying for the clean up...yet.

Double the cost estimate for the nuke plant, and put that incremental amount specifically toward a dedicated clean up/sequestration fund and then we might have a semi-accurate measurement of the real cost of nuclear power.

[icarus]

Can you spell whoops?

Washington Public Supply System,,, the largest bond default in history?


Icarus

[MJFrog]

My apologies for sending this thread so far OT with my suggestion of disposing of nuclear waste in the sun. I have started thread Nuclear waste in Space, disposal of... and would request that further OT comments regarding this be directed to that thread.

Thanks.

[jayman]

Originally Posted by icarus

I am not arguing that we do nothing, I am arguing we should stop producing the shit until we have a way to deal with it. The idea of embracing MORE nuke facilities is just crazy if we haven't solved this!

The problem is, outside of France, no major country (US or Canada) can even politically deal with the spent fuel. Why is it that in North America we can become paralyzed with indecision?

I could care less if you're discussing large-scale hydroelectric, coal power, natural gas, bunker fuel, etc, there are definite long term environmental impacts

Even back when there were definite dual-purpose nuclear reactors, eg at Hanford, reprocessing was only the most rudimentary to retrieve plutonium. The high level actinides were either flushed into the Columbia, or pumped onsite into million gallon single wall - later dual wall - tank farms.

Canada is very much complicit in the supply of weapons grade plutonium. This dates back to the very start of the Cold War. There is still a legacy of uranium tailings in northern Saskatchewan, and Elliot Lake Ontario, that have yet to be dealt with

To be able to reduce the high level actinides by 90-95% should be a no-brainer sort of project. But for whatever reason, the politicians - in their "infinite wisdom" - have decided to leave the spent bundles happily glowing away in giant swimming pools

[jayman]

Originally Posted by icarus

Washington Public Supply System,,, the largest bond default in history?

Oh, sorry. For a moment there I thought you were referring to Ontario Hydro, when they went Tango Uniform

[bluetwo]

Apparently there's still a really good chance the Volt won't even be produced and IF it does get produced it certainly isn't going to sell very well. That's what I got from this board anyway.

Even if it sold in large numbers the grid would still be just fine. Most people would charge at night when the power is in less demand and less expensive. Literally, half the homes in the U.S. would have to start charging an electric car every day to jolt the power grid and frankly that aint gonna happen any time soon.

[jayman]

Originally Posted by bluetwo

Literally, half the homes in the U.S. would have to start charging an electric car every day to jolt the power grid and frankly that aint gonna happen any time soon.

I agree