Do grass lawns help global warming?

[Pinto Girl]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 4 2007, 12:35 PM) [snapback]417694[/snapback]</div>

A ton of our neighbors are going to THIS route:

http://www.southwestgreens.com/turfgrass.html

Man! They got that stuff looking pretty real. Looks great, and in southern CA where they're currently under drought / H2O restrictions, it seems like the way to go...
[/b]

How about just creating a landscape with plants native to one's region? They're evolved to thrive in just the conditions you're experiencing in your area.

I think it's good that the landscape in different parts of the country reflects the unique environmental conditions...otherwise, everywhere we go we'd see roses and a vibrant green lawn.

Boring!!

I really don't understand the fascination with growing and maintaining a lawn in conditions which won't support such a fertilizer and water intensive monoculture. Then, to take it a step further and have a FAKE lawn...?!?

What's up with this visual metaphor? Are we recalling the conditions on the East Coast of our country?

Why on Earth would I want to sit in my back garden and gaze upon an expanse of green-colored recycled tires, formed in the shape of blades of grass?

Yuk.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Apr 4 2007, 12:12 PM) [snapback]417676[/snapback]</div>

...perhaps advocate knocking off all people in the top 1% of net worth/income - those are the guys with the big carbon footprints, the private jets, the tax evaders, the HUGE co2 producers - anybody calculate the net savings in co2 production doing that?
[/b]

I suspect you'd be against such a decision...these folks are probably your patient$.

[tripp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 4 2007, 03:32 PM) [snapback]417818[/snapback]</div>

What's up with this visual metaphor? Are we recalling the conditions on the East Coast of our country?
[/b]

Not East Coast... English.

[TimBikes]

Cut with one of these manual mowers and you won't be blowing out any CO2.

[oxnardprof]

I agree with several of the posts that traditional grass lawns are not beneficial due to water consumption, lawn mowing (electric or gas), herbicide and fertilizer use, etc.

We are in the process of planning a xeriscape in the front yard, removing the lawn and replacing it with drought tolerant, noninvasive garden plants. We will convert the sprinklers to drip irrigation.

As another poster pointed out, here in Southern California, water restrictions may become a fact of life, so it is prudent to plan for it. Even without formal restrictions, this is appropriate.

[Darwood]

Wood ticks could be a problem with prairie grasses for an urban/suburban home.

Ticks in the north are rampant in rural areas and Lyme disease and other tick borne diseases are all over the place. Since, we have a cabin in the rural north woods, I have to pay like 50 bucks a year on a lyme vaccine for the dog as well as about 80 bucks a year for frontline tick repellant.
Yet, my dog still got a mild positive test for lymes last month and now we're paying 50 bucks for antibiotics for our 120 pound Weimeraner (We were expecting an 80 pound dog, as most weimeraners ussually are). This is just an unavoidable expense when you have a dog, and a cabin in the woods.

Ticks are pretty much non existant in the city though, since ticks can't survive in short grasses.
If people all had prairie grasses instead of a manicurd lawn, wouldn't tick populations move back in?
Then you'd be looking at ALL dogs needed tick prevention and many humans would even get lymes.

Also, with a big dog and two young boys, I need a "playable" yard, and tall grasses would probably not be ideal. We'd lose a ton of toys and balls in the lawn, we'd have many more mice and insects, it'd be darn tough picking up dog poop as well as cleaning up sticks, leaves, walnuts, and all the other crap my trees drop. This is also a problem for "turf". Do you know how much pee and poop comes out of a 120 pound dog? The turf would be so nasty in 1 year, I'd have to rip it up and send it to a landfill. At least now, I reuse all the yard waste I generate into mulch or compost.

What I need to do, is reduce my lawn (convert to food producing garden) and mow the rest with an electric or manual mower. In the north, lawns do pretty good on their own, and only need occasional watering. If I installed a rainwater cystern, I'd probably collect enough for all watering needs. However, that would require bringing in heavy equipment to dig the hole which would probably not go over real good with the neighbors. Or my carbon footprint.

[SSimon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Apr 5 2007, 12:57 PM) [snapback]418308[/snapback]</div>

What I need to do, is reduce my lawn (convert to food producing garden) and mow the rest with an electric or manual mower.....
[/b]

...and try to make an attempt to cut back on fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides which end up in water far, far away. As a peripheral thought, pesticides end up killing 99% of beneficial bugs and a minority of true pests. I don't think many people know this. I didn't, until I became involved with my own restoration.

I'm not sure about ticks moving into residential prairie type installations. I do know that I worked with an 80 year old man to conduct a base line survey of our native, public grasslands who has been in the field his whole life. This past year was the first that he contracted Lyme disease and he is always in the thick of it. Dressing correctly is half of the battle but I'm sure we all don't want to be walking around our backyards in such an inconvenient manner.

Speaking from experience, my prairie is three years old this year and I haven't encountered any type of a tick problem. I'll post if one arises this warm season. So far, my private restoration has been nothing but a pleasant experience.

[Darwood]

I've never used pesticides and only a couple of times used herbicides in small controlled spots (as opposed to just dousing the whole lawn with the crap. So I'm not too worried about that. As for fertilizers, I use organic fertilizer (to protect the dog and kids in the yard) once or twice a year. Usually fish emulsion (kinda smells for a day!). It's really not a whole lot. The lawn doesn't need a whole lot if you use a good mulching mower. And if you water it in properly, it doesn't not contaminate anything. It gets into the soil and is pulled up into grass.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Apr 5 2007, 02:09 PM) [snapback]418315[/snapback]</div>

Speaking from experience, my prairie is three years old this year and I haven't encountered any type of a tick problem. I'll post if one arises this warm season. So far, my private restoration has been nothing but a pleasant experience.
[/b]

But does your parcel have a route for the reintroduction of the ticks? (connections to larger natural landscapes, carrier animals like deer).
A few homes here and there in the middle of the suburburbs/city are not going to have ticks flowing back in. But if many people go that route, they could.
Lymes is pretty much located in the northern midwest and reside primarily on the deer ticks. No deer? no deer ticks. Deer ticks are smaller than regular ticks and much harder to notice if they are on you or your dog. I think your approach is a good one, but is probably not a good idea for everyone to switch to. If I had no dog or kids, I'd probably turn my entire yard into food producing garden space! Though I'd have to be ready with the pellet gun to fight off the overpopulation of squirrels.

[nerfer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Apr 5 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]418308[/snapback]</div>

Ticks are pretty much non existant in the city though, since ticks can't survive in short grasses.
If people all had prairie grasses instead of a manicurd lawn, wouldn't tick populations move back in?
Then you'd be looking at ALL dogs needed tick prevention and many humans would even get lymes.
[/b]

As mentioned, you still need vector species to transport the ticks around. Why can't they live in short grass too - they need a place for the eggs to hatch and then climb up and wait for a passing animal to grab onto. A lawnmower would chop up a few, but I don't think that's the reason they aren't in suburban yards, it's more of a lack of tick-carrying mammals.

In the north, lawns do pretty good on their own, and only need occasional watering. If I installed a rainwater cystern, I'd probably collect enough for all watering needs. However, that would require bringing in heavy equipment to dig the hole which would probably not go over real good with the neighbors. Or my carbon footprint.
[/b]

Let it go dormant. Looks a little brown, then returns to life with wetter, cooler weather with no problem. Or plant zoysia grass - grows slowly, doesn't need much water, stays green all summer, but looks like you killed it in the winter (straw-yellow).

For fertilizing, I use natural fertilizers (limited selection available at the local Home Depot). I also bought a cheap soil-testing kit from the garden store and determined what the grass needed (mostly nitrogen in my case, because I had been using a nitrogen-poor natural fertilizer before that). Originally the lawn had some herbicides, so the weed problem wasn't bad. Now I can just go around with a screwdriver and get out the dandelions and other weeds as I see them. A properly fed lawn will resist weeds - they can only move in when the grass is weak. Figure out why the grass is weak and then the weed problem is easy to fix. I haven't used any herbicides or pesticides in years. I don't water much (usually not at all), so it doesn't look as nice as my neighbor's lawn with his in-ground sprinkler system, but I don't mind. I would like to increase the portions that are not grass, but that takes time and money up-front, the savings come later.

I had a friend who had no grass lawn, all natural prairie or other vegetation, but when they moved they couldn't sell it (it was also when the real estate market slumped), so they ended up ripping out the prairie and putting in sod. That was sad to see.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Apr 5 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]418315[/snapback]</div>

I'm not sure about ticks moving into residential prairie type installations. I do know that I worked with an 80 year old man to conduct a base line survey of our native, public grasslands who has been in the field his whole life. This past year was the first that he contracted Lyme disease and he is always in the thick of it. Dressing correctly is half of the battle but I'm sure we all don't want to be walking around our backyards in such an inconvenient manner.
[/b]

Growing up on a farm, camping every year, and volunteering with a prairie-restoration group, I can't tell you how many ticks I've had on me. Not too many were attached (do a scan at the end of the day or before), but all those were wood ticks, and most were before Lyme Disease spread into this area. I haven't knowingly seen any of the smaller deer ticks. No tick diseases for me yet (knock on wood). I worked on that base-line survey too (two years ago, if it's the same one), and I got a ton of chiggers that year, but few ticks.

[SSimon]

I just bought another batch of corn gluten for my weed problem. Supposedly, it has slow release nitrogen in it as a natural component of the corn. This isn't a quick fix solution to anything. It requires two annual applications, one in Spring and one in Fall. I don't yet know how effective it is as I just started applying it last Fall. It affects seedlings, but not mature plantings. So, manual labor is still required to rid your lawn of any mature weeds.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Apr 5 2007, 02:07 PM) [snapback]418342[/snapback]</div>

Growing up on a farm, camping every year, and volunteering with a prairie-restoration group, I can't tell you how many ticks I've had on me. Not too many were attached (do a scan at the end of the day or before), but all those were wood ticks, and most were before Lyme Disease spread into this area. I haven't knowingly seen any of the smaller deer ticks. No tick diseases for me yet (knock on wood). I worked on that base-line survey too (two years ago, if it's the same one), and I got a ton of chiggers that year, but few ticks.
[/b]

I've had a ton of ticks too, but not the Lyme carrying ones. From what I understand they are as tiny as the period at the end of this sentence so they'd be hard to see with a visual body check. Yes, it's the same study we were involved with. We were warned about chiggers so it's one of the only times I've found it acceptable to spray my ankles and legs with Deet. A friend told me that if I was inhabited by chiggers, an application of clear nail polish (or was it nail polish remover?) would extract them. Logically, it sounds like clear nail polish would work. Maybe it suffocates them. Hope this info helps for your next excursion.

[hill]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 4 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]417818[/snapback]</div>

How about just creating a landscape with plants native to one's region? They're evolved to thrive in just the conditions you're experiencing in your area.

[/b]

Well, in So. Cal, . . . wouldn't THAT look boring (most folks don't realize the area, naturally is DESERT ... ie; rocks, tumbleweeds, a few cactus). The day our CA neighbors go THAT route, I'll stay up in Montana :P . Yea, I'd prefer fake lawn to rocks.