Do you believe in Jevons Paradox?

[drees]

Hey Jimbo - just be aware that they should be reimbursing you for more than just gas - there's maintenance, depreciation and wear & tear involved with driving in addition to fuel costs.

[JimboPalmer]

Originally Posted by drees

Hey Jimbo - just be aware that they should be reimbursing you for more than just gas - there's maintenance, depreciation and wear & tear involved with driving in addition to fuel costs.

In theory, this is true, but then I have to drive/ride in her Xterra, and get 16 gallons every 290 miles. Breaks my heart. 10 gallons every 420 miles makes me feel so much less guilty.

[icarus]

It's like my bother in law was getting mileage back in the 1980's. I don't remember what he was getting paid, but he drove a VW Rabbit diesel @50mph when diesel was ~$.75/gallon. He cleared enough every year to buy a new car if he wanted to! He drove that Rabbit to 400k miles, then donated it to some charity!

Icarus

PS Drives an 07 Prius now!

[ShellyT]

Originally Posted by drees

Hey Jimbo - just be aware that they should be reimbursing you for more than just gas - there's maintenance, depreciation and wear & tear involved with driving in addition to fuel costs.

Part of it can be recoup when filing taxes. You should be able to take the standard mileage rate deduction, around 40 cents a mile, minus what the company reimbursed you.

[hill]

Originally Posted by qbee42

You need LEDs for that use.

Tom

Let me know when you find some of moderate quality / warmness / work on a rheostat / and wide angle, for under $80 a piece.

[icarus]

Try here:LED Lights

Icarus

[cobby034]

I can not believe it

[hill]

Originally Posted by icarus

Try here:LED Lights

Icarus

Been there:

PAR38-20W

Initial Cost (fob) = $154
Labour (replacement bulbs)= $0
Energy Costs over 50,000hrs
Power Consumption 20 watts


But thanks for trying to be helpfull, anyway. Their pricing is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The good ones are over $100 a piece, have a very cool kelvin (color) rating (when you call them), no rheostat applications, etc. (sigh) ... but maybe they'll have it together within a couple years. Heck, often they don't even use less power than a CFL, as in the example above!

One of the other 'jokes' is the LED warranty ... typically a year or two, if you're lucky ... YET, the retailers / manufacturers LOVE to quote 50,000 hours. That's great IF they last that long ... but many won't even come close to that, in the written warranty ... they just TALK about how long they last. At least CFL manufacturers WILL take the warranty out to 5 years in many instances.



But Yes, I find Jevon has our home pegged. We got more efficient, and now use more. What with our PV panel system, energy efficint refrigerators / front load washer, CFL's etc we have no problem keeping the house brighter than we really need to.

The most recent example of our "waste" of power, due to our higher efficiency (see The Correct Answer website if you don't know what I'm talking about) is a HUGE uninterupted power supply that we just bought. Power goes out, and we won't loose power. It' what us kooky 'preparedness' folk do. The downside? It'll draw 200 watts, around the clock, 24/7 ... 4.7ish-Kwh per day. Yep, I'd say Jevon happens.

.

[icarus]

Just wait,, the LED revolution is just around the corner. Within 5 years I predict it will give CFLs a run for their money per lumen and colour!

Evidence X-mas lights. A walk down the aisle at Lowes the other day, thousands of strands of LED lights as low as $.99. The first set bought a couple of years ago were >$20.

Icarus

PS. To Hill, your large UPS is the crux of ongoing debates in PV circles. That is, for the few times that the power is likely to go out and for how long, is the customer better off buying a energy ef standby generator and a stock of fuel? My argument has always been that the grid is pretty damn reliable, and when it goes out it is rare, AND it is usually back up fairly quickly. So for the money spent on hybrid Pv systems and USB, one might be better off spending that extra money on a few more watts of PV and a Honda genny. A 3kw Honda EU that is big enough to run any house (exclusive of A/C or electric heat can be had for ~$1500. What's a UPS big enough to provide real loads for a long time cost, and how often does the battery need replacing? In our world, hybridizing a Pv system to run on batteries when the power is off is a nice idea, but usually doubles the cost,,, if not triples it.

Now if you worry about earthquakes or hurricanes keeping the power off for weeks you have to make up your own mind.

Icarus

[tripp]

To counter Hill, we have continuously improved efficiency and simply use less energy.

Also, depending on Hill's systems actual output, if he's negative consumption and everyone went to that, we'd use way less energy. The thrust of Jevon's thesis is that overall energy consumption goes up. Hill, are you using more energy now because you're more efficient? I'm guessing that the answer is no.