Solar breakthrough? Why didn't anyone think of this before?

[icarus]

Originally Posted by KK6PD

Icarus, dude NO OFFENSE taken, You have some VERY valid points. Just to let you know, I have spent 75k for the install, including raw stock aluminum, nuts, bolts mounts etc. ( Yes I really did build everything from the ground up!!) 30 days after being tied to the grid, I received a 50% rebate from the city of Glendale, CA, $37,500.00. That went right into the loan principal. Over the next couple years the tax credits added up to around 4k or so more , so the total out of pocket was 29k!!

I have insulated ALL walls interior and exterior, had the Attic Spray Foamed, very smart move there, My indoor pool is heated with a Solar water heat exchange package on the roof, and running the pump 1 hour a day gives me 90 degree water!!! I use a H2O2 based chemical system, so no chlorine smell!! I replaced ALL the windows with Dual glazed windows. Put R-30 in the ceiling and R-19 in the walls. Finally I painted the roof with Henrys 287 which reflects a lot (not sure what %) of the heat transfer thru the roof sheathing!! As a side note, the insulation is so good, without A/C, when its 101 outside, its 78/80 inside !!! NOT BAD!! With all that, 7.5 kW breaks almost even. As I make further improvements to the home I am hoping to break even!!! Maybe even collect a check from the Glendale Water & Power.

And the whole point being that you can lead some semblance of a normal home life with a proper perspective of how much power you are going to allow yourself to use to make your self comfortable. I could assemble the same system today with a smaller footprint, for less money. Its getting better, I am really looking forward to the next 20 years of technology advances to see what happens, but of course if you observe the Mayan calendar, in 2012 the world goes Bye Bye!!!

You win some, you lose some!!

73 de KK6PD

P.S. What part of the country do you install solar in? Whats he largest package you have worked on? I would be interested in what other folks are doing!!

Kudo's sounds like you've got it dialed!

I used to build custom homes in the PNW, but now I work remote sites, off grid in Northern Ontario, Canada. Not much solar (on my end) in the PNW, save passive design elements and hot water. The $$ aren't there.

The off grid stuff is all one off systems for bush camps. I mostly act as a consultant. The biggest system I have done is ~1kw 48vdc, into ~1000ahr battery bank. Add batteries and you start spending money. My own system is magic at 200 watts! We use 30ahr/12vdc! Just shows how little you really need if you have thought things through.

Keep up the good work,

Icarus

PS I was going to guess ~70k but I didn't want to insult anyone!

[RobH]

If you install more PV than you use, is there any reason to conserve?

The mantra of conserve, conserve, conserve clearly applies to a scarce resource. But it is clearly within our technology to build homes that have a net zero ongoing energy impact. The grid is required for night electricity, and can be balanced with overproduction during the day.

My experience is that PV costs about the same as grid power. I know it's a mushy number, but it's close enough for planning. Given equal prices, it seems much more desirable to spend the money on the equipment than on pollution causing power generation.

[richard schumacher]

Originally Posted by KK6PD

I would be interested in what other folks are doing!!

Urging Congress to require utility buy-backs of home generated power at the instantaneously prevailing retail rate. That would do a lot to encourage home systems even without tax credits or rebates.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by RobH

If you install more PV than you use, is there any reason to conserve?

The mantra of conserve, conserve, conserve clearly applies to a scarce resource. But it is clearly within our technology to build homes that have a net zero ongoing energy impact. The grid is required for night electricity, and can be balanced with overproduction during the day.

My experience is that PV costs about the same as grid power. I know it's a mushy number, but it's close enough for planning. Given equal prices, it seems much more desirable to spend the money on the equipment than on pollution causing power generation.

The fact is in todays world, energy in toto is scarce, expensive and polluting. Just becasue PV solar is not polluting, doesn't mean we should waste it just because it is clean. All excess PV production (which I urge) should go to reducing other forms of dirtier, expensive etc of generating capacity.

I agree that PV solar in some climates is competitive with grid power and I urge all that can be installed, but the reality is that we are decades away from having enough clean energy alternatives to waste it.

We have to start looking at the problem much more globally rather than how it effects just our lives. What I do can have significant impact, either positively or negatively (sometimes both) on the larger reality.

So my mantra continues to be, conservation first, conservation second, and conservation third! It is what makes sense.

Icarus

[drees]

Originally Posted by RobH

If you install more PV than you use, is there any reason to conserve

Right now? No.

When someone convinces the utility companies to actually pay customers for excess power generated? Yes.

That's one of my biggest peeves with the system now.

[tripp]

The feed in tariffs (which seem to be gaining some support here in the States) will defo change that. People in Germany are raking in scads of cash by selling their excess power for a VERY good rate. I wonder how sustainable it is economically (it's not, really) but it's a great way to get momentum for alternatives. Once people own their power and can sell it, they'll become acutely aware of how much they make/use/sell and optimize the those parameters for max profit.

It could lead to a whole new array of smart appliances that communicate with the household energy system to maximize the amount of power sold (or minimize consumption).