Help w/ solar panels

[SSimon]

I've recently heard that heating costs will increase by about 30% this upcoming heating season. This prompted me to revisit costs to install panels on my house. The cost for a four panel system is about $22m. After rebates our out of pocket would be about $12,000. The panels should displace anywhere between 30-50% of our conventional energy use.

I've researched natural gas prices and the price just about doubles every 3-4 years. With current price escalations, it looks like the price is now set to double by this winter, within a one year period. I can speculate that costs will continue to increase on the current scale but using historical prices it looks like it will take about 10-14 years for us to recoup the costs of the panels based on historical cost escalations.

With the exception of two things, we've performed all energy improvements recommended on energy audit websites. Our windows are single paned with storms. I've caulked them and use plastic on them in the colder months. Based on these two things, and the related small drop in our energy use, I'm not convinced new windows will provide a rate of return better than would be provided by panels. The other things we have yet to do is have an HVAC contractor out to inspect our ductwork for leaks. We are definitely going to do this and have them fix any leaky ductwork.

The panels wouldn't be funded by cash. We'd have to take out debt. We're thinking of using our home equity line to fund the purchase so that we can write off any associated interest.

What would you do given the above scenario?

[Godiva]

If you're going to get an equity loan, can you increase the PV system to provide 100% of your electricity/year rather than thed 30-50%?

Have you considered solar water?

How is your insulation?

If you're going to need a new roof soon, do that before adding PV.

[SSimon]

The panels wouldn't cover any electricity. Only natural gas.

I'm not too concerned about water heating costs since we hardly use any water. We typically use about 18-30 therms in the warmer months and this includes the energy used for our clothes dryer. I'm more concerned about home heating than anything else. It's killing us. We have paid up to $300 in some months. Could go up to $500 for some months this year with the kind of price escalations I'm witnessing.

I just blew in loose insulation throughout the attic. That's done. Nice sound abatement as well as reduction in energy use.

I asked about the roof replacement and she said that since the panels won't be flush, the roofer can work around the panels with no worries. If we do this I will call my roofer to ensure this before contracting for solar.

How do you like your system? Are you electric only conversion? I checked with them about electric and this type of system would take even longer for us to make back our outlay. We use very little electricity compared to norms.

[Zythryn]

I would check into the windows again. Double pane (or triple) argon filled windows can save you a bunch of heat in cold months.
Just how cold is 'cold' in your area?
Our panels are roof mounted, have survived through two hail storms which damaged vents, gutters and such. However we use no natural gas, our home is all electric and geothermal so our positions are quite different.
Also, have you checked into wood pelet stoves?

[finiyon]

Where are you looking to get the panels? Do you have it down to a single manufacturer? We are looking to install in new construction.

[tripp]

SSimon, you really should check out the stoves, wood pellet or otherwise. If you have good access to wood a good stove that's EPAII rated would probably do a great job of heating your house. Doing that and buying new windows might be considerably cheaper than the radiant heating (that's what you're doing, right). Just a thought.

[Godiva]

I've got a natural gas furnace, stove, water heater (on demand tankless) and dryer.

I have PV for the electrical. My electric bill should be zero at the end of the year.

In order to replace the NG I'd have to convert the furnace, stove, water heater and dryer to electricity. I'm not willing to do that yet. (I do use a small electric space heater in the winter in the bedroom.)

If natural gas gets to be too cost prohibitive...I may replace these large appliances and simply add more solar PV to make up the difference. But that is not cost effective yet.

I don't see how the solar is going to replace your NG. Do you use a boiler and radiators to heat and the solar will be hot water for that?

[Godiva]

Originally Posted by tripp

SSimon, you really should check out the stoves, wood pellet or otherwise. If you have good access to wood a good stove that's EPAII rated would probably do a great job of heating your house. Doing that and buying new windows might be considerably cheaper than the radiant heating (that's what you're doing, right). Just a thought.

My parents have a fireplace that heats their home in the winter. They haven't bought wood in years.

They have a deal going with a local tree removal, stump grinder service. They call my Dad when they're taking down a tree and the owner doesn't want the wood. He comes with his truck and the guys load it up. The tree guys don't have to pay to dispose of the tree in the local land fill, and my Dad gets free firewood.

[SSimon]

To answer the above questions:

I'm near Chicago so it typically gets pretty cold here. Wind is also a big factor here. I've installed a wind break that's not yet mature enough for me to advise if it's going to help.

I haven't checked into wood pellet stoves. It seems pellets would have higher ghg emissions than NG??? (no radiant heating in my house) I've no doubt a pellet stove would heat my house. It's small and our fireplace can keep our house warm on very cold winter days. If emissions aren't nasty, noxious and abundant, I will look into this option. Anyone know?

I received the solar panel quote not from a manufacturer but from a solar panel installation contractor.

I just talked w/ my handyman and he said they put new siding on their house along with new windows and their energy costs almost halved. I'm going to call a siding contractor that I'm familiar with and see what they think. If this reduction bares out, I'd much rather spend money for improvements to my house that are sure to bring my money back (in part) on the sale of the house. The solar market isn't yet aged enough around here to tell how the investment will hold upon sale.

I'm also not real comfortable spending the money for solar without our state budget resolved. This would account for almost $7,000 of the panels that we'd be paying out of pocket and hoping that the "discretionary" alternative energy part of the budget holds, that the monetary cap isn't already account for with new applicants and that I don't have to wait a year or so to get my rebate due to the timing of my application.

Thanks for the wood pellet stove recommendation. Let me know on emissions. I'll google in the meanwhile.

[Zythryn]

SSimon, the windows should definately help. Siding really doesn't do much, it is all the windows (unless you are adding insulation at the time of siding?).
The pellet stoves I looked into actually ran quite clean.
Many actually have remote thermometers which turn on and off automatically to maintain a certain room temp. This and the windows may be your best bet.
Seriously though, get double pane windows, those single pane ones are nasty in the cold.