California's Water Crisis. Why?

[hyo silver]

Any kind of a flush system using holding tanks or a septic field is still water-based. What about a true composting toilet that produces only a small amount of...'bran flakes' in a year? My understanding is that they need to be cleaned out once or twice a year, depending on use, and use a heater to evaporate most of the uh...materials. These would save vast quantities of drinking water, and greatly reduce the pollutants for all the downstream organisms.

[Godiva]

And how do you retrofit?

My parent's house is built on a concrete slab.

[hyo silver]

Yes, retrofit can be an issue. It's a fairly large box that needs to be installed either under the bathroom or outside of it, and not all municipalities - or homeowners and neighbours, for that matter - are keen on them. I didn't say the solution would be simple or work for everyone, but I think they could make a big difference overall.

[skruse]

Plumbers have been resistant to any changes. Waterless urinals use no water, do not smell and are easy to keep clean. Some solar-assisted composting toilets are excellent. Liquids evaporate up a vent pipe, solids are removed as needed (once or twice year) - only problem are heavy metals and salts from the human diet.

Smart home builders install a gray water valve. Toilet discharge goes to the community sewer or septic tank. All other liquids (shower, sinks, wash water) goes to a properly designed sump to allow for infiltration and percolation. Homes are designed to minimize residential and landscape water use.

Many National Parks and National Forest areas now issue a heavy gauge aluminum zip lock bag for you to bring your solid (human) waste back with you. Contents are placed in a sewage or composting toilet system. Less soil disturbance, no concentration of human waste, urine readily evaporates. Boat trips on wild and scenic rivers are expected to bring out all human waste - solid and liquid. McMurdo Sound Antarctica has 37 categories of recyclables and does an excellent job bringing out refuse. At present McMurdo pumps human waste into the Antarctic ocean. We have a long way to go to be responsible residents of Earth.

[SSimon]

Originally Posted by skruse

Liquids evaporate up a vent pipe, solids are removed as needed (once or twice year) - only problem are heavy metals and salts from the human diet.

And you can add comment as to how this is managed in such a system? Can microbes or insects help in this area?

[DaveinOlyWA]

Originally Posted by skruse

Plumbers have been resistant to any changes. Waterless urinals use no water, do not smell and are easy to keep clean.

my employer installed 4 of them about a year ago, give or take. they were in for about 3-4 months and removed. they REEKED!!... we are a 24/7 operation and although being cleaned 4 times a day, 7 days a week, it still did not help...

maybe my fellow employees are slobs, but we tried it, and it failed.

[thepolarcrew]

DaveinWa, if it's any consolation, plumbing was one of the many areas of my training when I was in the military and your guys aren't slobs.

Just had my system redone and the guys where great. (the plumbers)

Have observed that there seems to be an over ridding sense of self importance here when it comes to ones occupation. If you aren't of a certain profession, people have a tendency to think you are beneath them.

[F8L]

Originally Posted by thepolarcrew

Have observed that there seems to be an over ridding sense of self importance here when it comes to ones occupation. If you aren't of a certain profession, people have a tendency to think you are beneath them.

It is typical of those without education in a particular field to get that feeling. The fact is I don't know of anyone in my field that looks down on someone else because they are not educated in a similar field, nor do they feel superior. They do, myself included, place a difference level of value upon the opinions of those educated in a different field... I.E. I'm not going to place as much value on the opinions of a truck driver when discusssing serpentine soils and narrow endemism just like he should not place much value on my explaination of his diesel engine troubles. Some consider that arrogant; I do not. True there are exceptions to this form of stereotyping but it generally seems to hold true.

I grew up around a great many uneducated people who loved to put down those who held degrees as if it eased their own self esteem issues about not having a higher education. In fact, I was one of them for quite some time.

*edit* This was not directed at you polarcrew, this is just a general observation having grown up as uneducated "white trash" then moving onto a proper education and working with professionals. Sorry if the tone came across otherwise.

On Topic:

Hyo is on target. Retro fitting these technologies is not always easy or even possible without extensive modifications. Once must assess their particular site and find the best method of sanitation that will work for them. This does, however, work well for building re-designs or new building construction.

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Originally Posted by thepolarcrew

FL, I think the solution is a couple more desal plants on each side of the state. Shouldn't just be Florida, should be looking at this where ever a state sits on the ocean.

We draw a lot of our water from a nasty river and Aquifers. If the C of Engineers had finished what they started 50 years ago, we wouldn't be drawing down ours either. Once these babies are gone it's going to be hell to pay. Sink holes and no water.

California has most excellent reasons for a Desal plant to supply the coastal cities and allow the inland water to be properly balanced between farms and environmental sustainability. Additionally the Solar resources are great.

There is absolutely no fundamental shortage requiring Florida to need a Desal plant, but for the extremely extravagant use of water. Unfortunately, a whole generation of my contemporaries consider any retraints on using any resource to be a political issue. (As if electing someone can solve this - Quite a loony notion.) Continous education is the only hope. Unfortunately, the PC Environment Forum is not where most of the uneducated hang out at.

[F8L]

Originally Posted by FL_Prius_Driver

California has most excellent reasons for a Desal plant to supply the coastal cities and allow the inland water to be properly balanced between farms and environmental sustainability. Additionally the Solar resources are great.

There is absolutely no fundamental shortage requiring Florida to need a Desal plant, but for the extremely extravagant use of water. Unfortunately, a whole generation of my contemporaries consider any retraints on using any resource to be a political issue. (As if electing someone can solve this - Quite a loony notion.) Continous education is the only hope. Unfortunately, the PC Environment Forum is not where most of the uneducated hang out at.

Well stated! I cannot verify the accuracy of Florida's need for agricultural water but I'll accept your opinion on that one.