California's Water Crisis. Why?

[avocadoman1]

Originally Posted by F8L

What options have you looked into for efficient irrigation for your trees? Are you currently flooding your orchards?

not flooding. avo trees do best on sloping hillsides.
drip is not an option with the sandy soil.
my 400 trees are irrigated w/ one sprinkler at each tree.
because of avo tree's root structure, you need a 20' diameter spray.
generally, not much lost to evaporation as the heads are close to surface and under the shade and canopy protection.
as far as i know, this is the only option.

[F8L]

Originally Posted by avocadoman1

not flooding. avo trees do best on sloping hillsides.
drip is not an option with the sandy soil.
my 400 trees are irrigated w/ one sprinkler at each tree.
because of avo tree's root structure, you need a 20' diameter spray.
generally, not much lost to evaporation as the heads are close to surface and under the shade and canopy protection.
as far as i know, this is the only option.

Gotcha. Shows you how much I know about avocados.

How was your water situation handled?

[Godiva]

Water Shortage declared in San Diego.

We managed to cut 7% over last year but it went up and now we're only at 3% less than last year.

I'm sure whatever they do it will be across the board. How much you've *already* conserved won't matter. It will be one size fits all.

I hope at last we'll see some movement towards water reclamation and desalination and a temporary moratorium on large developments.

"Sanders' goal is to get San Diegans to reduce they amount of water they use by about 10 percent. He has previously promoted the "20 Gallon Challenge," which calls on all San Diego County residents to reduce the amount of water they use by 20 gallons a day."

"Also, Monday The City Council put off sending out a notice to San Diego water customers about a pending rate increase.

The 8.5 percent increase, slated to take effect Jan. 1, is needed to cover the higher cost of imported water from the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, according to city staff.

It would be the fifth price increase in two years."

That doesn't include money for recycling or desalination. That will cost extra.

[F8L]

Just think how much it's going to cost if one of the notorious 100 or 200yr droughts kick in like they used to.. The last 150yrs or so have been relatively wet I believe.

[Godiva]

That's 20 gallons per household, not per person.

So a single person would cut back 20 gallons. And a family of 5 would cut back 20 gallons. And if you've already cut back every year.....another 20 gallons.

Bathing only on Saturday? Only one flush per day? Paperplates and plastic utensils? Throw away your clothes when they get dirty?

[thepolarcrew]

“I grew up around a great many uneducated people who loved to put down those who held degrees as if it eased their own self esteem issues about not having a higher education. In fact, I was one of them for quite some time.”

F8L, it’s unfortunate you casually dismiss opinions of others that are not as informed or educated as you in regards to Ecology/Biodiversity and land trust Internship. Now you are putting down people you feel have a lesser degree of knowledge than yourself.

I personally find it insulting when you talk about learning and education and chastise those with similar interest who are willing to learn but with a differing view.

All things considered, you claim to be an student (but pretend to be an expert) in Ecology/Biodiversity yet you are clueless when it comes to avocados and irrigation of such in your own state? Considering California is the leading producer of the avocado just shows how narrow minded you really are when it comes to knowledge and opinions in general.

Surrounding and immersing ones self with people of similar beliefs and knowledge has a tendency to diminish ones ability to see things from an-other person’s perspective and leads to ignorance, narrow mindedness and arrogance.

Considering you are a student and Intern doesn’t make you an expert. Even experts disagree on interdisciplinary topics and have a tendency to inflate ones own ego-credentials when trying to impress and or prove a point.

Science is not exact, people disprove theories every day. This isn't to say you aren't right in some of your observations. But when push comes to shove, its' the person with the most gold who gets his or her way at the end of the day.

I agree that "Continous education is the only hope."

I guess I missed the part about being funny!

I guess it's the part of valuing of opinion that hits a nerve. "They do, myself included, place a difference level of value upon the opinions of those educated in a different field..." Aren't we all in this together?

[richard schumacher]

Originally Posted by FL_Prius_Driver

a whole generation of my contemporaries consider any retraints on using any resource to be a political issue. (As if electing someone can solve this - Quite a loony notion.)

Politics is the art of governance. One essential function of government is allocation of limited resources, thus water policies are deeply and essentially political. It could be otherwise only if everyone had unlimited access to water. Technology may make that possible someday, but it's not the case now.

[F8L]

Originally Posted by thepolarcrew

“I grew up around a great many uneducated people who loved to put down those who held degrees as if it eased their own self esteem issues about not having a higher education. In fact, I was one of them for quite some time.”

F8L, it’s unfortunate you casually dismiss opinions of others that are not as informed or educated as you in regards to Ecology/Biodiversity and land trust Internship. Now you are putting down people you feel have a lesser degree of knowledge than yourself.

I personally find it insulting when you talk about learning and education and chastise those with similar interest who are willing to learn but with a differing view.

This sounds like your personal problem to me and is based on how you choose to view the issue. I never once assumed a position of superiority like you claimed previously. I just stated that an opinion from someone not educated in a particular field will be weighed differently than an expert in said field. If I went to a electrical engineering lab and the intern there started telling me about the work she does I would have no cause to question her opinion on electrical engineering because I am not trained in that. Same goes for my neighbor telling me the proper way to mend a fence. Though some like Tripp may work in a different field than one they are educated in, you can usually assess their level of understanding on a subject fairly quickly and determine what value to place on their material. If you can't understand that then I don't know what to say.

All things considered, you claim to be an student (but pretend to be an expert) in Ecology/Biodiversity yet you are clueless when it comes to avocados and irrigation of such in your own state? Considering California is the leading producer of the avocado just shows how narrow minded you really are when it comes to knowledge and opinions in general.

Since when did crop agricultural become part of the ecology/biodiversity discipline? Ecology is a broad discipline for sure but it cannot teach you everything which is why I asked Avocado man about his irrigation system instead of trying to tell him how to do it. As for the last part, now who is trying to put others down?

Surrounding and immersing ones self with people of similar beliefs and knowledge has a tendency to diminish ones ability to see things from an-other person’s perspective and leads to ignorance, narrow mindedness and arrogance.

Don't start with me on this topic, I'm more well rounded than you could ever know.

Considering you are a student and Intern doesn’t make you an expert. Even experts disagree on interdisciplinary topics and have a tendency to inflate ones own ego-credentials when trying to impress and or prove a point.

I'm surrounded by experts so I'm well aware of the difference of opinions they may have with other experts and how far I am from that level yet compared to the non-ecology/biology/botany major I still maintain a much higher level of understanding of natural systems. Is that ego? No that is simple fact so stop playing the ego game. I'm not here to impress anyone.

I guess I missed the part about being funny!

I guess it's the part of valuing of opinion that hits a nerve. "They do, myself included, place a difference level of value upon the opinions of those educated in a different field..." Aren't we all in this together?

Maybe you just don't get it. "we are all in this together" has nothing to do with a person giving his or her opinion on a subject he/she knows nothing about. When a gas station owner tells me that vernal pool fairy shrimp are worthless because we can't eat them, should I value his opinion? Clearly not. You are arguing that I should? (this has nothing to do with educating him on the subject) Now if he was giving his opinion on what is important to him then I would listen because he is a part of the population and we do indeed need to work together. See the difference here?

I'm not going to muddy up this thread with further responses to you so if you would like to continue repairing your self esteem wounding feel free to PM me.

[thepolarcrew]

It's your choice off words and how you respond to others that gives the preception that it does. Its not just you, their are others in the community (myself included) that do it. It's like Mr. Sanctimonious, my first impression wasn't good, but the more I thought about it, the more I had to agree he was right in a lot of regards.

This effect isn't limited to you. It pertains to most disciplines and supposed educated professionals having a sense of superiority and slamming or trying to discredit people that might disagee, even within their given field.

We are on a big rock flying through space, alot of what happens is because it does what it wants. We are here for a short period of time and we get caught up in the past vs the future. Being creative, we come up with new tools, ideas ect. as time goes by, some say hey, that was a great concept lets improve upon it! Others come along and disagree and say it's garbage and wreckes every thing, needs to be stopped and now we are doomed.

In stead of cooperation you have conflict.

We need to manage what we have to further sustain life and progress. Yes we do need to change some things that some consider wrong. But it is through education, not turning back, but moving ahead that is going to take us some where.

I don't buy alot of the hype on global any-thing, most people have an agenda come hell or high water it's their way or no way. So they start group think and the process becomes paralyzed, or turns into conflict and makes it impossible for every one else in between.

Back to the flying rock. It is in a constant state of change and man can only guess why! But it is pure speculation. It isn't an exact science! Has man had an effect? Most likely. Can man improve upon what he has built, most definitely! But the rock still flies into unchartered space and does what it wants. And this is where science and common sense collide.

My point is, instead of dwelling on past events and damage, we need to look at what where we are, what we have, get the facts, make a decision and improve as we go along.

I see you through the sames eyes as I did Mr. Sanctimonious, the difference is he doesn't threaten with banishment! Enough ranting! I will now bite my tongue a little harder.

[avocadoman1]

Originally Posted by F8L

Gotcha. Shows you how much I know about avocados.
How was your water situation handled?

as previously stated, i "stump" a section of trees in my grove. those trees then do not require any (or very little) water in the first 12 months.
the second 12 months requires the normal amount of water.
they grow back like normal trees.
they don't produce fruit until the end of the second 12 months.



above: an illegal stumping avo trees