1st year results with Solar

[Bob_bear]

Originally Posted by ZippyPri

Great!, keep making a difference and showing the ignorant an alternate way.

ZippyPri .... what a pompous and arrogant statement .... you must be one of the chosen few

[Codyroo]

Originally Posted by Bob_bear

ZippyPri .... what a pompous and arrogant statement .... you must be one of the chosen few

I think I understand your sentiment, but realize there are people who can do something and choose not to. Others would like to do something but cannot "reasonably" afford to. I would like to think ZippyPri was talking about the former and you are defending the latter.

My parents could afford solar panels, they have a great Southern exposure and they need to replace their roof. Unfortunately, it is typically overcast where they live, so they wouldn't see the full benefit of it. Still, they won't do it. They can afford it, easily. I even take the angle of "sticking it to PG&E" to my dad, but he won't do it. Too conservative, too set in his ways, not enough listening to the scientists in his own family, too much listening to people on the radio who's job it is to make $$$ being controversial.

One other thought, if we ever sell this house, the new owner gets a PV system and we can install another one on our next house. In that way, I've helped out by getting an additional PV system on the grid.

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Originally Posted by Codyroo

Oak trees are beautiful things, eat up lots of CO2 and provide shade on the house (lowering summer cooling bills) and shelter in the winter (lower winter heating bills). They do sell PV units that don't have to go on the roof, they can be free standing and can rotate to get optimal direction from the sun.

Unfortunately, 100 year oaks get mighty big and can cover a lot more than a house. Also. Freestanding solar needs a lot of special considerations for hurricane winds. There are plans afoot for a solar future, but probably not in the present house.

Originally Posted by Codyroo

...and she looked at me and said, "We're getting Solar".

It's hard to argue with the right answer, even harder when coming from an "motivating" source. (I was looking for the politically correct word for hottie, but there does not appear to be one.)

[tripp]

bah, PC is for tossers.

[Shawn Clark]

Codyroo,

Thanks for the info. How much area do the panels cover?

I've found the solar sizing info on the web to be ridiculously obtuse rather than helpful. Doesn't the industry have any clue? I mean how hard would it be to say an X square foot system in your location is anticipated to produce Y kwh on average? (Yes, I understand about exposures and angles and geographic location, but the "sizing software" doesn't seem to do the most basic, obvious things.)

[Codyroo]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

Codyroo,

Thanks for the info. How much area do the panels cover?

I've found the solar sizing info on the web to be ridiculously obtuse rather than helpful. Doesn't the industry have any clue? I mean how hard would it be to say an X square foot system in your location is anticipated to produce Y kwh on average? (Yes, I understand about exposures and angles and geographic location, but the "sizing software" doesn't seem to do the most basic, obvious things.)

I don't have the exact dimensions (I'll try to get them from the binder I have at the house tonight) and I'd have to go back and see the exact model of panels we have. That being said, the panels are approximately 5' x 3'. We had 24 panels thus approximately 360 square feet, covering a roof space of approximately 400 square feet (there is a 2 panel gap to accomodate some exaust vents/pipes from sinks and an attic fan in the roof).

We had 2 facings. Our Southern exposure could accomodate 12 panels (making an 10' x 18' rectangle). The Western exposure (slightly less efficient than southern) has 7 panels near the "peak" in the roof line, and 5 panels underneath them (allowing for a 2 panel gap to account for attic fans, exhaust vents, and the shading (potential) from the chimney).

[Shawn Clark]

Codyroo,

Thanks for the additional details. That's about the size I figured it would take to produce that much juice. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the effective cost can be cut in half in the next few years so that solar panels will become a desirable standard item in new construction. Paying an extra $10,000-15,000 in the original construction would not be much of a hurdle since the return would probably exceed the additional finance cost--depending on the local electrical source costs. I suspect there would be some combined savings with an integrated initial install anyway rather than a retrofit. (Perhaps less roofing material with a flush mount? Cheaper to pay an electrician for one larger job initially than two separate jobs, one being a retrofit?)

[pewd]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

(Perhaps less roofing material with a flush mount? Cheaper to pay an electrician for one larger job initially than two separate jobs, one being a retrofit?)

you want them raised up a few inches to allow air to circulate, so they'll run cooler.

there are also PV's built into roofing material, e.g., roofing shingles that are PV cells. this is just an example. I'm not pushing any particular vendor.

as a general rule, you want to explore all other options first - adding insulation, solar hot water, energy star appliances, upgrade your windows, move to CFL's, etc. first, these options provide the most bang for the buck. e.g., get your energy usage under control before investing in PV's.

hopefully in a few years they'll be cheaper as another poster postulated, and PV's will become much more common in residental installations.

[Shawn Clark]

pewd,

Thanks but I moved to CFL's four years ago because the payoff was incredibly short--I was living in Texas when natural gas prices began driving up electric rates (all the geniuses switching from coal to "cheap" natural gas at the same time created a predictable scarcity.) The windows here were recently upgraded. Appliances and AC will be changed as they wear out--I've done some cost to benefit allowance and even though I want to change refrigerators for various reasons including age, the economics for such a change are weak (1-2% per year, maybe 3% if I am generous with estimates of additional cooling load in summer.)

Other than solar the HVAC unit here has the most potential since it is older. Efficiency can be improved but the worst bottleneck appears to be in the blower/ducting and perhaps the A-coil. I would like to use a much smarter control scheme to properly distribute air between various levels (getting "free" cooling or heating where possible and making better use of natural convection.)

Insulation improvement presents limited possibilities in this house, although I do intend to go after the low hanging fruit (DIY project.) The solar water heating payout is not likely to be any better than PV with the layout of my house, and I have greater concerns about it as well. If I did it I would want to integrate it with PV (it would be subordinate in determining location.)

The biggest remaining potential appears to be solar. I heard about the solar shingles a few years ago but am not seeing much happening with them.

(I've considered a few other ideas like venting PC fan exhaust out of the house during summer. Wish I had a good way of capturing low level heat from appliances and putting it into the ducts for recirc in winter or venting it outdoors in summer.)

[pewd]

sounds like you've done your homework.
check out this solar power forum - lots of PV experts on that board