Good CFL, bad CFL...user recommendations

[icarus]

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Icarus

[Fibb222]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

Are those R20's or R30's? I've not yet tried one of them that I was happy with (only tested the GE's and "Bright Effects" so far.) n:Vision does have some new ones, but I haven't felt adventurous enough to test them yet as I have an overabundance of the accursed GE's. I'm considering garage selling the GE's for $1/each this Spring. My primary objection to them is that they are just way too dim for the first two minutes.

EDIT:
Found a review of the new R20 n:Vision--it's a mixed bag. Seems to suffer from the same problem as the GE's, slow to fully illuminate. But the reviewer also complains it is too bright once lit! That would be a problem for some, but for my application it would be a plus as the GE's are also dimmer than I would like. I think it makes sense since the package says 14W (~60W equivalent), and specs say 465 lumens. GE's says 11W and 400 lumens. It's hard to tell, but it looks like the bulb is about 3/8" shorter than the GE's (which are borderline too long for track spots.)

Enclosing the CFL spirals with globes/reflector glass seems to be a problem, period.

I'll check if I can find some spares in the garage. All my CFLs are Luminus brand from costco. The regular bulbs are totally awesome in their ability to shine bright instantly, but the pot lights are slowwwwwwww.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

JSH,

I find it hard to believe that the n:Vision and GE's "perform identically" for anyone on the criteria I listed. I've yet to see any GE's that are instant on..............

These are GE's that were purchased in 2007 or later. Looking at the bulb closer I have found the model: FLE10HT3/2/SW

On GE's website they have the specs for FLE10HT3/2/SW/CD: 49906 - Technical Specifications - GE Home Lighting Products

As I said before, to me, these GE bulbs perform identically to the N:Vision bulbs I have. I don't have a meter to measure their intensity but they the turn on instantly and at close to full intensity.

YouTube - CFL Comparison (GE vs N:Vison)

YouTube - CFL Comparison (GE vs N:Vison)

This video is a mix of GE and N:Vison bulbs of different wattage. One is a 9W N:Vision, one is a 10W GE, and one is a new 15W that may be a GE or N:Vison. This is the first start of the day. I'm curious if your discerning eye can tell me which bulbs are GE and which are N:Vison.

They are functionally the same to me.

[msirach]

I have GE 13w and 26w spirals in the house and one 46 watt in an outdoor post lamp on a photo switch. The 46 has been in for 4 years and comes on at dark and goes off at morning light each day without failure. The GE spirals have great life as well. Lights of America in globe, candelabra and spot have had "spotty" life. 6 globes in a dining light have failed intermittently without 1000's of hours of use. Quality and consistency of the LOA is not great. I converted the industrial plant where I work to CFL. I ran a sample test of 100 cfl's on 1 unit for 12 months of 24 hour a day service in high vibration and high heat (up to 140° )atmospheres.
After 12 months: 2% infant mortality of 30 days or less. 14% failed from 3 to 12 months. It was deemed a success as the same test of rough service 130v incandescents life was much less. 5% were out within 10 minutes of installation. and 74% were out in 30 days. We have 6 units of 100 26w cfl's that replaced 100 and 150 watt incandescents.
We have Safety Kleen disposal boxes to fill with the bulbs at the end of life so they can be disposed of responsibly.

I have started changing out some accent lights at home now with 1.5 led's from Sam's club. They are replacing 11 watt cfl's which are 40w incandescent replacements.

Yes, I am a confirmed believer of Cfl's and energy efficient lighting.

[tripp]

How much money is the plant saving per month in energy costs and maintenance costs? Do you know/can you tell us?

[Shawn Clark]

Originally Posted by JSH

This video is a mix of GE and N:Vison bulbs of different wattage. One is a 9W N:Vision, one is a 10W GE, and one is a new 15W that may be a GE or N:Vison. This is the first start of the day. I'm curious if your discerning eye can tell me which bulbs are GE and which are N:Vison.

None of the GE's I've ever seen turn on that quickly unless they've been flipped on for some time before the test. The two in my den take 1 sec ("one-thousand -one") and 1.5 sec respectively to light when cold. The enclosure types are even worse as they come up at very low intensity as well. I've got approximately 40 GE CFL's in four different types (plus a set of dimmables that I tested and returned for refund), none of them behave like that unless they've been on for awhile right before the test. I can recreate your result by leaving them on for a few minutes, then shutting them off, then testing.

But the model number you have for the GE is one I don't have and that could make a difference. I've never had a 40W equivalent GE plain CFL. I do have the 13's (~60W) and 26's (100W). Seems I have few of the 13's left, so they must have suffered a higher failure rate--some probably due to mechanical damage in low ceiling fans.

If one counts the 60's I moved about this weekend in another city, and those I did two years ago for another relative (all that were available locally) I've tested about 50 GE CFL's in at least five homes over 3 states without ever seeing cold start instant-on from the GE's. Those aren't odds I would advise anyone to bet against.

[JSH]

You don't want to play "Guess the CFL"?

For potential shoppers out there:
Left ------- GE (10W) FLE10HT3/2/SW
Center ---- N:Vision (14W) EDXO-14
Right ----- N:Vision (9W) EDO-9

None had been lit for ~ 12 hours. (They were mixed in a 3-globe ceiling fan in our den (Cat Room)). If for some strange reason my wife went into the den this morning then they hadn't been lit for ~ 3 hours.


As I said before, I've had good success with CFL's with the exception of the Lights of America 15w (60W equivalent). They had a high initial failure rate and do take a little bit of time to light (~0.5 seconds).

Thinking back I also had a Lights of America circular lamp conversion that took a long time to light and died within a year.

[tripp]

Why do people whinge about the .5 - 1.0 second time to light of CFLs? Who bloody cares. After a second it's not an issue. Reliability, colour temp, and time to full illumination seem like FAR more important factors.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by tripp

Why do people whinge about the .5 - 1.0 second time to light of CFLs? Who bloody cares. After a second it's not an issue. Reliability, colour temp, and time to full illumination seem like FAR more important factors.

I don't know. I prefer the white light of a CFL to the yellowish light of an incandescent which I guess makes me a little odd. What I really care about is price, energy use, and lifespan. My fluorescent industrial lights take a couple of seconds to fully light and at least a minute to get to full intensity. It has never been an issue for me. I don't care if it 4 lights in a fixture light up at slightly different times.

[Shawn Clark]

Originally Posted by tripp

Why do people whinge about the .5 - 1.0 second time to light of CFLs? Who bloody cares. After a second it's not an issue. Reliability, colour temp, and time to full illumination seem like FAR more important factors.

Because it looks like junk in a multi-light fixture and is wholly unnecessary. Yes, it is primarily aesthetics. I don't see it as a good reason to forego CFL's (although some do) and it is something to avoid if possible.

The GE's are the worst of the lot in this category. Half a second is short for a GE, I've got a number that take up to 2 seconds to turn on, by which point folks are often flipping the switch on and off trying to figure out why the light doesn't work. I've not had much to complain about with respect to color temps or reliability. (Although I really could make good use of something midway between the soft white and the bright white color temps if I had my wish.)

Full illumination time is an even bigger problem with the enclosed CFL's (vs. the simple spirals above.) Most take a minute or longer to reach full intensity. I wonder why this is so? Is it something about vapor deposition upon cooling inside the enclosure vs. bare spirals? User reviews complain about this illumination issue extensively. In many cases these just appear to be enclosed CFL spirals, so why can't they behave like them? Why do they on average start up with much of the tube unlit? The enclosure type bulbs also have a really high failure rate from what I can tell in reviews. I've even had some ("Bright Effects") that started near full intensity for the first few days/week before they began to do low intensity starts. This is an area that needs some attention.

The low percentage illumination on start up has factored into my reversion to incandescents in a few ceiling cans. They are in dark areas where I need full light within a seconds. (Other factors are that the heat produced is useful in winter in some places, and the GE dimmer bulbs I tried in another were expensive dismal failures.)