Good CFL, bad CFL...user recommendations

[Boo]

Shawn,

Thanks. Great thread. Very useful info.

* * * * * * *

My current biggest problem with CFLs are finding CFLs that are equivalent to 100 watt incandescents in brightness (about 1500 to 1700 lumens), but that will fit in a couple of lamps of mine:

-- One has a shade bracket that effectively limits the length of a bulb to that of a regular light bulb, i.e., approximately 4.5 inches; so it needs a CFL (could be a mini-spiral) that does not exceed 4.5 inches in length.

-- One has a shade that clamps onto a regular light bulb; so it needs an enclosed CFL where (1) the enclosure is the shape of and no wider than a regular light bulb, and (2) for stylistic reasons, the length does not exceed 5 inches (though it would be preferable that it not exceed the approximately 4.5 inches length of a regular light bulb).

Both types of shades are common. But I don't think either CFL bulb exists right now. Maybe next year ....

[msirach]

I used a KWH rate of $.10 which is a common residential rate around here.

26w CFL x 24hrs/day x $.10 =$.06/day, $22.78/year x 100 lamps x 6 units = $13,668/year

100w incandescent x 24hrs/day x $.10 =$.24/day, $87.60/year x 100 lamps x 6 units = $52,560/year

$52,560 - $13,668 = $38,892 savings

There is even more savings realized on such a large scale since the incandescent had to be changed out an average of 10 times per year.
Cost of labor, cost of product and impact of disposal could be factored to make the spread even greater.
The figures above were enough to convince the department heads and purchasing to put cfl's on the stock item list.
That brought on another battle that I fought as well. The intial test used Sam's club 5 packs. Purchasing ordered Phillips bulbs for about $11 each from an electrical supplier.
I had to make the small effort of showing the yearly difference of buying the 5 packs for a couple more dollars than for the price of one bulb from the supplier.
Sam's Club is now on our approved vendors list.

Originally Posted by tripp

How much money is the plant saving per month in energy costs and maintenance costs? Do you know/can you tell us?

[Yankees251]

Man I am so jealous of all this talk of CFL's, I bought such a large stockpile of incandescents a few years ago and am almost out of stock. I am so ready for CFL's, but i just couldn't justify junking perfectly good light bulbs and creating unnecessary trash.

[Celtic Blue]

Originally Posted by Boo

-- One has a shade bracket that effectively limits the length of a bulb to that of a regular light bulb, i.e., approximately 4.5 inches; so it needs a CFL (could be a mini-spiral) that does not exceed 4.5 inches in length.

-- One has a shade that clamps onto a regular light bulb; so it needs an enclosed CFL where (1) the enclosure is the shape of and no wider than a regular light bulb, and (2) for stylistic reasons, the length does not exceed 5 inches (though it would be preferable that it not exceed the approximately 4.5 inches length of a regular light bulb).

I might not be much help as I recently sold my lamps with similar issues (the lamps and shades were in pretty sorry shape so it wasn't a tough decision.)

There are harp extenders for bulky 3-way CFL's but it doesn't sound like that is what you need.

The "Commercial Electric" 23W bulbs I have claim to be 100W equivalent and 1600 lumens. I haven't tried to quantify them vs. the GE's but expect that they are more like a 90W equivalent. These are my oldest CFL's purchased in late 2004/early 2005 as memory serves. O.A.L is a little under 4-3/4", with 3-3/4" of that above the thread base. O.D. of the spiral appears to be a hair under 2-3/8". There have been numerous complaints of melt failures (with pictures) but I've not experienced that. My very first package had every bulb quit within two weeks, none of the replacements have failed except when mechanically damaged. I have about 8-10 total.

Sylvania makes a 23w "Micro-Mini Spiral CFL Bulb" with 4.5" length and 2.1" width. Sounds like it might be a fit for your first application. I haven't tried it. Someone mentioned using them in garage door openers...this is something I have not yet converted.

[Celtic Blue]

Originally Posted by msirach

The figures above were enough to convince the department heads and purchasing to put cfl's on the stock item list.
That brought on another battle that I fought as well. The intial test used Sam's club 5 packs. Purchasing ordered Phillips bulbs for about $11 each from an electrical supplier.
I had to make the small effort of showing the yearly difference of buying the 5 packs for a couple more dollars than for the price of one bulb from the supplier.
Sam's Club is now on our approved vendors list.

That sounds familiar. It takes somebody stubborn and willing to fight the red tape to get things on the approved vendors list.

I remember having a valve in our stores system that was serious safety hazard, leaking profusely whenever the temperature dropped into the teens. I talked to the vendor and he pointed out we just needed to spec a slightly modified type from the same manufacturer at roughly the same price. I retrofitted a pilot unit with them and they cured the problem (no more high pressure hydrogen and CO leaks, yay!) But it was like pulling teeth to get stores to stop carrying the old one, and stock the new one. I think SAP was part of the problem...

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

I might not be much help as I recently sold my lamps with similar issues (the lamps and shades were in pretty sorry shape so it wasn't a tough decision.)

There are harp extenders for bulky 3-way CFL's but it doesn't sound like that is what you need.

The "Commercial Electric" 23W bulbs I have claim to be 100W equivalent and 1600 lumens. I haven't tried to quantify them vs. the GE's but expect that they are more like a 90W equivalent. These are my oldest CFL's purchased in late 2004/early 2005 as memory serves. O.A.L is a little under 4-3/4", with 3-3/4" of that above the thread base. O.D. of the spiral appears to be a hair under 2-3/8". There have been numerous complaints of melt failures (with pictures) but I've not experienced that. My very first package had every bulb quit within two weeks, none of the replacements have failed except when mechanically damaged. I have about 8-10 total.

Sylvania makes a 23w "Micro-Mini Spiral CFL Bulb" with 4.5" length and 2.1" width. Sounds like it might be a fit for your first application. I haven't tried it. Someone mentioned using them in garage door openers...this is something I have not yet converted.

Whoa, thanks Shawn! If those are the true dimensions then it will definitely fit in a couple of pricey lamps that I have and which are used and located in places that really need 1500+ lumens. I'm going to look for those bulbs as soon as I can.

[tripp]

Man I am so jealous of all this talk of CFL's, I bought such a large stockpile of incandescents a few years ago and am almost out of stock. I am so ready for CFL's, but i just couldn't justify junking perfectly good light bulbs and creating unnecessary trash.

Ditch 'em now. The operating costs are probably higher than the cost of new CFLs + the CFL operating costs, esp if your electricity is pricey. What's a typical rate in CT?

[tripp]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

Full illumination time is an even bigger problem with the enclosed CFL's (vs. the simple spirals above.) Most take a minute or longer to reach full intensity. I wonder why this is so? Is it something about vapor deposition upon cooling inside the enclosure vs. bare spirals? User reviews complain about this illumination issue extensively. In many cases these just appear to be enclosed CFL spirals, so why can't they behave like them? Why do they on average start up with much of the tube unlit? The enclosure type bulbs also have a really high failure rate from what I can tell in reviews. I've even had some ("Bright Effects") that started near full intensity for the first few days/week before they began to do low intensity starts. This is an area that needs some attention.

The low percentage illumination on start up has factored into my reversion to incandescents in a few ceiling cans. They are in dark areas where I need full light within a seconds. (Other factors are that the heat produced is useful in winter in some places, and the GE dimmer bulbs I tried in another were expensive dismal failures.)

The panasonics that I have in the bathroom sound vastly superior to the ones you've tried. The commercial electric globes that were there originally sound like they are similar to your experience. They were awful.

The panasonics come on a little slow (0.5-1.0 s) but are quite brite from the get-go. I've had them there for almost 2 years now. The colour temp is very nice too. They were expensive, something like $9.50 per bulb. With shipping I think I paid something like $34 for the 3 of them (they're 14W bulbs).

[Celtic Blue]

Originally Posted by tripp

Ditch 'em now. The operating costs are probably higher than the cost of new CFLs + the CFL operating costs, esp if your electricity is pricey. What's a typical rate in CT?

I agree. It is hard to abandon the incandescents you have but it pays off really quickly. My advice is to try a CFL pack in high use areas. If you have any problems with that pack, take it back and test another manufacturer until you find what you need.

In the past years when we moved I took all of my CFL's with me. No, it's not the greenest thing to do (Icarus will probably lecture me again), but I replace them with the cheapest incandescents I can find. My wife spent about 40 cents (total, not each!) for the dozen or more incandescent bulbs we needed one time--had some sort of coupon and there was a super low cost sale.

[galaxee]

we've had poor luck with the 3-way bulbs we installed in our floor lamps a couple years back. the brightest setting gets all flickery, so we just use the two lower settings. kinda defeats the purpose... will have to check the brand later.