Why are Governments so unwilling to subsidise low carbon emission vehicles?

[ozboy]

Or alternatively, place a carbon tax on fuel?
It seems like the blindingly obvious thing to do!!!

Nothing is offered here in Australia, except a stupid policy of halving the luxury car tax (for luxury cars only, >$57K) if the vehicle uses less than 7 litres/100km (like the new Lexus 4WD hybrid).

[rpatterman]

Not sure about Australia, but here in the USA, Congress and Corporate America are one and the same. This won't change until we see serious
campaign finance reform, which of course will never happen because Congress and Corporate America are one and the same.

Is CONgress the opposite of PROgress??? Just askin....

[acdii]

You would think that there would be a push to sell more Hybrids, yet just about everyone of them is sold without any incentives or special financing. I am really considering upgrading my TCH to a FFH, but not unless I can get a very low interest rate to equal out the difference in payments. The tax credit is meaningless as you really don't see anything from it, I would rather have it knocked off the cost of the car instead. What I thought was pretty cool was when I bought the TCH, Chase, who it is financed through, gave me a $1000 debit card to use as I like. I would love to get a 502a Fusion for $28,500, same as I paid for my current TCH, with TTL.

[hill]

Originally Posted by ozboy

Or alternatively, place a carbon tax on fuel?
It seems like the blindingly obvious thing to do!!!

Nothing is offered here in Australia, except a stupid policy of halving the luxury car tax (for luxury cars only, >$57K) if the vehicle uses less than 7 litres/100km (like the new Lexus 4WD hybrid).

Simple answer oxboy. Our legislators create laws to protect the interests of big money ... whether it be the medical insurance industry, big oil, big unions, the old folks lobby, or the auto industry. After all, you can't perpetuate your job as a legislator unless you keep rebuilding your re-election war chest. Since EV's (or even hybrids) have a smaller profit margin, oil & auto industries have spent hundreds of millions in buying the status quo.

[Shawn Clark]

The answers given so far are incorrect blame shifting. The real problem is somewhere north of 90% of U.S. consumers/voters will not support a carbon tax/fuel tax or even properly fund their roads and bridges. (And the vast majority believe that their services should be free and they should have no taxes of any kind.) Folks are largely unwilling to invest in long term projects. Any pain (fuel taxes) is too much for them. Only giveaways (using borrowed money) are acceptable, so that's what we get. This is a result of willful voter stupidity, the elected officials are merely doing what the voters elected them to do. Politicians are a direct reflection of the electorate. Until the voters end their cognitive disconnect, they will continue electing folks that put off paying the bills.

I'm in the tiny minority that thinks U.S. gas taxes should be several dollars per gallon. Doing so would drive the consumer and free market toward the sort of long term solutions we need. Unfortunately, the average citizen thinks you can mandate fuel economy on the manufacturer while at the same time having cheap gasoline/diesel. The market doesn't work that way as the consumers will opt for faster/larger/more powerful cars/trucks if fuel is cheap. That's what happened for the past two decades. More efficient cars were available, but consumers were not buying them in large quantities. They were considered less desirable and the profit margins were very slim. That changed when gas became several times more expensive.

[tripp]

I heard on NPR today that during WW2, income tax on the weathiest Americans was up to 94%! Middle class taxes were considerably higher during that era too. Gallup polls showed that most americans that these taxes were fair. The red scare must have changed all of that.

[acdii]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

The answers given so far are incorrect blame shifting. The real problem is somewhere north of 90% of U.S. consumers/voters will not support a carbon tax/fuel tax or even properly fund their roads and bridges. (And the vast majority believe that their services should be free and they should have no taxes of any kind.) Folks are largely unwilling to invest in long term projects. Any pain (fuel taxes) is too much for them. Only giveaways (using borrowed money) are acceptable, so that's what we get. This is a result of willful voter stupidity, the elected officials are merely doing what the voters elected them to do. Politicians are a direct reflection of the electorate. Until the voters end their cognitive disconnect, they will continue electing folks that put off paying the bills.

I'm in the tiny minority that thinks U.S. gas taxes should be several dollars per gallon. Doing so would drive the consumer and free market toward the sort of long term solutions we need. Unfortunately, the average citizen thinks you can mandate fuel economy on the manufacturer while at the same time having cheap gasoline/diesel. The market doesn't work that way as the consumers will opt for faster/larger/more powerful cars/trucks if fuel is cheap. That's what happened for the past two decades. More efficient cars were available, but consumers were not buying them in large quantities. They were considered less desirable and the profit margins were very slim. That changed when gas became several times more expensive.

Some of what you say is worthy, but one thing that has bugged me for quite some time now about gasoline and diesel taxes, where have they gone? When you consider that in IL, the tax is not fixed, but a percentage per gallon. When the price of gas went up, so did the tax revenue.

I believe what bugs me most, and why I am against more taxation, is because they steal from one tax, to pay for something other than what the tax was collected for. There should have been plenty of money for road projects and repairs from the fuel taxes, especially when it was $4 a gallon, a good chunk of that $4 was tax here, somewhere near 60-80 cents per gallon of gasoline, even higher than that for Diesel. Where did it go?

One other thing, raising gas prices with more taxes wont curb the use, even when gas was nearly $5 a gallon here, people drove like nuts, wasted gas, and traffic was no less than normal. I do believe though that the high price of fuel was partially to blame for the recent foreclosures. Another thing to consider, when gas gets that high, people look for alternate means of fuel for their cars, and gas thefts go up. Raising taxes on fuel may seem like a good idea on paper, but not in this country, maybe in Europe where there are great public transportation systems, and distances aren't as great, but here in the US, people rely on cars to get around, its the American way, and trying to change that in people will be extremely difficult and could backfire greatly.

Guns and Cars, from my cold dead hands, that's the American way.

[jayman]

Originally Posted by acdii

one thing that has bugged me for quite some time now about gasoline and diesel taxes, where have they gone?

Fuel taxes in Canada are *much* higher than in the US. I ask the same question: wtf happened to all that tax revenue

There is NO requirement to put the money into transportaiton, eg better roads. The money just disappears into the grinder

Not sure about where you live, but around here, I'm considered a real SOB for even questioning where my taxpayer money ends up. Apparently, I'm supposed to STFU and happily pay it

[Politburo]

Originally Posted by acdii

I believe what bugs me most, and why I am against more taxation, is because they steal from one tax, to pay for something other than what the tax was collected for. There should have been plenty of money for road projects and repairs from the fuel taxes, especially when it was $4 a gallon, a good chunk of that $4 was tax here, somewhere near 60-80 cents per gallon of gasoline, even higher than that for Diesel. Where did it go?

It looks like the problem in Illinois, imo, is that sales tax is also applied to gas. The sales-tax portion of revenue probably goes to the general fund, where it becomes untraceable. The gas-only tax portion of revenue appears to go solely to transportation funding. The gas-only tax is fixed.

In any case, I don't know how you reach the conclusion that "plenty of money" should have been available, even if all revenues were directed to transportation funding. While revenues did increase due to the increase in gas prices, the government's expenses also increased. Obviously there isn't a 1:1 correlation, but the picture is more complex than you make it out to be, imo.

[Shawn Clark]

Originally Posted by acdii

Some of what you say is worthy, but one thing that has bugged me for quite some time now about gasoline and diesel taxes, where have they gone? When you consider that in IL, the tax is not fixed, but a percentage per gallon. When the price of gas went up, so did the tax revenue.

Not the Federal. It's still 18.4 cents/gallon of gasoline, 24.4 for diesel same as it was . State taxes vary, as do the quality of roads... I'm not sure how Illinois' roads are regarded today, but when I was younger they were some of the worst in the region and the butt of many trucker jokes. State priorities differ so where the funds get spent by the states is up to its residents.

I believe what bugs me most, and why I am against more taxation, is because they steal from one tax, to pay for something other than what the tax was collected for. There should have been plenty of money for road projects and repairs from the fuel taxes, especially when it was $4 a gallon, a good chunk of that $4 was tax here, somewhere near 60-80 cents per gallon of gasoline, even higher than that for Diesel. Where did it go?

Quite a few innacuracies in the above:
1. If you have problems with diversion of taxes, then you must really want your taxes raised badly. Because we have not been paying the bills for the past decade, just stacking up IOU's so we could do other things. From Reagan on (and particularly in the last decade) Social Security has been used to fund things including the military/govt. as a whole that were not being paid for by corporate or personal taxes as they were carried on the budget. That well is about to run dry (as predicted.) It's not the so-called entitlements that are the problem...it's everything else that have stolen from them for years. If we adjusted the personal and corporate income tax now to pay back Social Security over the next few decades, the new tax rates would be enormous...but at least they would tax those who benefitted most and would be far more progressive.
2. Second, when gasoline hit ~$4 gallon, the Federal tax revenue on gasoline actually declined because it is fixed and demand began to falter. Some states actually do theirs as a percentage rate. Illinois seems to do it's as part of the general sales tax. Since states generally must balance their budgets rather than writing IOU's, plus they tend to do road planning annually, unexpected gas tax surpluses during otherwise lean times will likely result in the excess being spent elsewhere in the short term. And the deficits that were already looming when gasoline was peaking were indeed frightening.
3. Road infrastructure has been underfunded for so long that there is a very deep hole to fill.
4. States actually have increased their road spending from what I've read (and seen.)

One other thing, raising gas prices with more taxes wont curb the use, even when gas was nearly $5 a gallon here, people drove like nuts, wasted gas, and traffic was no less than normal.

Baloney. I noticed a reduction in traffic volume and a reduction in speeds. It was showing up in the annual gasoline consumption as well--which instead of growing, declined.

More importantly it began changing folks' vehicle selection process. This is a long term change that will take time to pay out.

I do believe though that the high price of fuel was partially to blame for the recent foreclosures.

So was the runaway cost of health care in the U.S. Over the past 15 years that cost has been greater than what folks spent on gasoline. Anything that increased in price was to blame.

Another thing to consider, when gas gets that high, people look for alternate means of fuel for their cars, and gas thefts go up.

Oh get real. That's the lamest excuse I've seen in a long time.

Raising taxes on fuel may seem like a good idea on paper, but not in this country, maybe in Europe where there are great public transportation systems, and distances aren't as great, but here in the US, people rely on cars to get around, its the American way, and trying to change that in people will be extremely difficult and could backfire greatly.

It has already backfired greatly. You can try to resist the inevitable increase in fuel prices, or you can figure out how to adapt.

Adapting and innovating is what I see as the American way, not trying to convince ourselves that we should live in the 1950's...which of course were not the American way until many years after the nation was founded.