E10 and small engine problems

[efusco]

I'm watching a local news story about problems with boat motors and lawn mowers and other small engines related to the 10% ethanol content in gas today. There is significant concern that moving to E15 as has been proposed could exacerbate issues and that the small and marine engine industries are not really able to adjust their motors to adapt.

Anyone know anything about these issues?
Ethanol In Gasoline Reportedly Wreaking Havoc On Small Engines - Ethanol Damage - Jalopnik
Boat Engines - Dangers and Precautions Necessary with E10 Ethanol-Blend Gasoline.

[Celtic Blue]

About the only thing I've noticed with my ~15-18 year old two stroke engines has been degradation of the fuel lines and primer buttons. I can't say whether this is due to E10, normal aging (loss of plasticizers) or what. I've only had to rebuild one of them so far (all the lines and primer button were completely shot on my trimmer), but I need to rebuild another soon (chainsaw primer button is falling apart--I can still seal the holes with my thumb while priming.) 18 year old mower is still running strong on original fuel system parts. Tecumseh built a tight, easy to start engine and I hope the deck holds out because I don't want to have to go back to Briggs and Stratton again.

[qbee42]

Generally the problem comes from plastics used in the fuel systems. The marine industry is having a bad time with GRP (Glass Reinforced Plastic, or Fiberglass) fuel tanks, which slowly dissolve and turn gummy. The gummy stuff gets into the fuel system and plugs it up. Sometimes it gets into the engine and burns, causing a lot of damage through fouling and hot spots.

Tom

[jayman]

I had trouble with a small Stihl weed whipper. I don't think it was actually made by Stihl, as identical models carry different labels.

Anyhooser, the primer bulb and fuel line wouldn't last the season. I happened to mention this to a guy in the parts department when I picked up the repair kit - again - and he told me to only run Premium gas.

Around here, most of the Premium gas doesn't contain any ethanol. So I thought, why not? The 10 litre mixed gas tank was empty anyway, so I put in the required amount of oil, and filled it with Shell Premium V Power

That was 5 years ago. The little weed whipper still runs fine. So there is some truth to the problem of running E10 on small motors. Based on the experience I had with the weed whipper, I've only run Shell V Power in the snow blower and lawn mower, with very good results

[jayman]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

I don't want to have to go back to Briggs and Stratton again.

If it was up to me, I'd round up every B&S motor out there, melt them down, and turn them into wheel weights. Or bullets.

The ancient B&S motors weren't bad. But from the late 1970's on, and *especially* the late 1990's, they really sucked

[icarus]

On the other hand,, I have had nothing but trouble over the years with Tecumseh engines. Probably just prejudice but we all have them. I found I could never get them and keep them running. Briggs and Scrap Iron were fraught with carb problems, but the ignitions were alright, the opposite of the Tecumseh's! (Electronic ignition has cured lots of other bad engines!)

Personally, Honda rules. Generators, water pumps, fire pumps, lawn mowers, snow blowers, out boards. I would prefer Honda 4 strokes OBs but we have a fleet of OMC 9.9 and 15s all with interchangeable parts so I'm not going to switch until the next major round. As for 2 cycle stuff,, Husquvarna (sic) rules. I know that there are Stihl guys out there,, but I prefer husky stuff, but no the line sold at Home Depot. I think that that is a much lower quality line as opposed to the HD commercial line.

As for the original question. I think that ethanol wrecks havoc with the small rubber parts in small engine fuel systems. I drain all my engines when ever they sit for more than a month,, and routinely replace fuel lines in OB tanks, chainsaw/weekeater fuel pick ups etc. I try to avoid it if I can,, and I usually can.

Icarus

[Celtic Blue]

Originally Posted by icarus

On the other hand,, I have had nothing but trouble over the years with Tecumseh engines. Probably just prejudice but we all have them. I found I could never get them and keep them running. Briggs and Scrap Iron were fraught with carb problems, but the ignitions were alright, the opposite of the Tecumseh's! (Electronic ignition has cured lots of other bad engines!)

I've heard this complaint about Tecumseh's by others, but I'm not sure what period or engine(s) it applies to. Some have said that Tecumseh really had trouble for awhile and that soured the market for them. I've had precisely two Tecumseh's and they have been the most trouble-free small engines I've ever had. They start with a single pull and I've never had to replace the starter rope/assembly. I go a whole season without needing any make up oil.

The first one I had was an old loaner for a season. The engine had been placed onto some other mower's deck. After having no trouble with it I bought my own at Sears a few years later. I really could use a larger mower now with more horsepower, but don't want to play the lotto trying another.

#1 priority for me is reliability. If the engine won't start when I need it (especially when trying to get work done during a weather window in advance of a front or vacation), then it is unlikely to stick around for very long. Hence my affinity for Tecumseh's and disgust with Briggs as well as Lawn Boys. Last Lawn Boy I used ended up shove airborne into a creek. (I fished it out a few minutes later, but that was the last time it ever ran--I wouldn't touch the damned thing after that and nobody else was keen to fight with it either.) Briggs I used were hard starting and burned as much oil as gas. Didn't run well either. Perhaps they had just seen better days before I got hold of them...like the AMC's, Chryslers, Fords, and Chevies that drifted in and out of my life.

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by jayman

<snip>

Anyhooser, the primer bulb and fuel line wouldn't last the season. I happened to mention this to a guy in the parts department when I picked up the repair kit - again - and he told me to only run Premium gas.
<snip>

Aha! I have a Sears POS leaf vacuum that my dad purchased. The primer bulb is completely gone. I bet that's what got it.

As for me, I go with Honda for any small engines. I have a Honda two hp air cooled four stroke outboard that we use on our tender. What a great little engine. Twenty-eight pounds for engine and built-in fuel tank. No water pump, no reverse gear, no manual clutch. It is very reliable.

Tom


Tom

[jayman]

Originally Posted by icarus

Personally, Honda rules. Generators, water pumps, fire pumps, lawn mowers, snow blowers, out boards.

The only Honda small motor I haven't used was an outboard motor (Not much of a water sports person). Otherwise, have had nothing but good luck with the Honda products, and will happily pay the premium for them

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

Last Lawn Boy I used ended up shove airborne into a creek. (I fished it out a few minutes later, but that was the last time it ever ran--I wouldn't touch the damned thing after that and nobody else was keen to fight with it either.)

After fighting with a small B&S garden tiller, I [WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT] completely flipped my s***, ran amok, and took a sledge to it. I literally beat the living s*** out of that cranky motor.

True, it never ran again, but I felt SO much better afterwards. For some reason, the neighbors I had at the time began to fear me.

Originally Posted by qbee42

Aha! I have a Sears POS leaf vacuum that my dad purchased. The primer bulb is completely gone. I bet that's what got it.

Yep, I think so. The replacement won't be any better, either. It will also decay and fall apart

Originally Posted by qbee42

As for me, I go with Honda for any small engines.

Same here. Life is too short to risk a massive stroke or heart attack while swearing at a lifeless small motor that won't run

[acdii]

That explains why all the lines rotted out in the tank on my JD trimmer. I just thought it was due to me leaving fuel in it over the winter.

As far as engines goes, Honda does make good SE, and so does Subaru, I have a pressure washer with a Subaru engine and it runs nice and strong. I noticed my JD tractor doesn't have a BS engine either, its some other foreign job, but runs smooth and quiet, and powerful. It is supposed to be CARB compliant, but I smell gasoline fumes coming from it, but cant seem to locate from where.