"Cash For Refrigerators" begins this fall - Dept. of Energy

[Rybold]

A $300 million cash-for-clunkers-type federal program to boost sales of energy-efficient home appliances provides a glimmer of hope for beleaguered makers of washing machines and dishwashers, but it's probably not enough to lift companies such as Whirlpool (NYSE:WHR - News) and Electrolux out of the worst down cycle in the sector's history.
Beginning late this fall, the program authorizes rebates of $50 to $200 for purchases of high-efficiency household appliances. The money is part of the broader economic stimulus bill passed earlier this year. Program details will vary by state, and the Energy Dept. has set a deadline of Oct. 15 for states to file formal applications. The Energy Dept. expects the bulk of the $300 million to be awarded by the end of November. (Unlike the clunkers auto program, consumers won't have to trade in their old appliances.)

Latest in Stimulus: 'Cash for Refrigerators' - Yahoo! News

This is shocking! The old refrigerators MUST be turned in! Otherwise, they will end up on the sides of peoples houses, deserted in fields, and that freon will eventually end up destroying the ozone layer!!!! (which is leading to mass extinction again, if not stopped)
(Scientists have estimated that life would not be able to survive on land if there was zero ozone layer - all life would have to reside under the surface of the oceans. Terrestrial plants would not survive - only plants growing in the oceans would survive. Additionally, in Earth's fossil record there are zero remains of any form of life on land prior to the formation of the ozone layer (ozone formed 400mill years ago). There is evidence of life from 3.5 billion years ago, but it was all protected under the surface of the ocean.)

[bruceha_2000]

Well it is interesting. Our refrigerator is 20 years old and still works just fine though I presume uses more electricity than a new one would. Getting $200 off a new one might help make a decision to replace it. However, the expected life span of current appliances looks to be pretty poor.

• Dishwashers: 9 - mine is 22 years old and has never needed any repair
• Dryers: (electric and gas) 13 - mine (electric) is 25 years old and has never needed any repair
• Refrigerators: 13 - The only thing mine has needed was to have the fan cleaned and I did it myself for free.
• Washing Machines: 10 - the first one lasted 22 years and during that time got a new water pump and a new circuit board
• Compactors: 6 - mine is 18 years old and has never needed any repair
• Microwave Ovens: 9 - not so lucky here. The first one lasted from 1990 to 2005. So far, so good. Its replacement was replaced last year.

The old "They don't make them like they used to" adage proves true.

source:
By the Numbers: How long will your appliances last? It depends: Consumer Reports Home & Garden Blog

[DaveinOlyWA]

estimated life cycle of any appliance should be much lower than its actual LT...we all should know that otherwise some a-hole will sue the company because his washer failed a year early which will only further drive up the cost of a new one.

its bad enough now when something happens to a car with 37 months or 37,000 miles on it. the consumer still feels ripped off, so when does it end.

cant imagine a company stupid enough to advertise "real" life expectancy

[jayman]

Hmmm, do I keep the old beer fridge, or get a shiny new one?

[Shawn Clark]

Originally Posted by bruceha_2000

Well it is interesting. Our refrigerator is 20 years old and still works just fine though I presume uses more electricity than a new one would. Getting $200 off a new one might help make a decision to replace it. However, the expected life span of current appliances looks to be pretty poor.

• Dishwashers: 9 - mine is 22 years old and has never needed any repair
• Dryers: (electric and gas) 13 - mine (electric) is 25 years old and has never needed any repair
• Refrigerators: 13 - The only thing mine has needed was to have the fan cleaned and I did it myself for free.
• Washing Machines: 10 - the first one lasted 22 years and during that time got a new water pump and a new circuit board
• Compactors: 6 - mine is 18 years old and has never needed any repair
• Microwave Ovens: 9 - not so lucky here. The first one lasted from 1990 to 2005. So far, so good. Its replacement was replaced last year.

The old "They don't make them like they used to" adage proves true.

FWIW those life spans aren't much different than what I recall from 15 years ago. And if there is a long projected life span it would be based on the ones that were that old preceding it. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.

Too bad they didn't have the rebate when I replaced my 14 year old fridge. I got $200 out of it anyway. Another $200 would have been very nice. I sold one before that for $100 that was about 15 years old...it was still running but was dying and had become a real PITA needing frequent defrosts. I'm glad they don't make fridges like they used to.

I had an old dishwasher that wouldn't clean anything (rental home). Boy was I ever glad to see it go, can't remember how long it has been. The new ones clean so much better than the old ones did. There is just no comparison. Better spray patterns, less energy use, less water use. I'm very glad they don't make them like they used to.

Clothes washer: replaced mine this year after about 17 years of service. It worked reasonably well, pretty much the same throughout its life. The transmission failed under warranty in the first year. I had to replace the water valves on it once every 8 years like clockwork. The lid switch also failed in the last year...took me a little while to figure out what was interrupting the cycle. The new front loader uses much less water, plus it uses less electricity. It spins the clothes dryer too, meaning less drying time and energy. It seems to be getting things cleaner and doesn't batter them the way the agitator did. I even managed to get $90 out of the old one. Glad they don't make 'em like they used to, with the one exception that the old ones were easy to repair.

Dryer: Replaced that as well. My ~17 year old dryer worked well enough. I only did one repair to it when it was about 5 years old, and can't recall what it was. It wasn't high end so it had no moisture sensor. This resulted in a lot of overdrying and shrinkage. Haven't sold it yet. The new dryer is better designed with a larger lint screen. It has a moisture sensor and enough temp control that it is performing much better than the old one. I'm saving money on energy and clothes. Other than a control board, I doubt there is anything on the dryer that I can't repair myself. Since moisture sensors were available way back then I can't say that there is much change in dryers. They are still basically the same tech.

Compactors: I've got a new one sitting in the garage that I need to sell. I have no use for them. Who wants that in the kitchen anyway? It's not like we get charged by volume and even if we did I'm not sure that the special bags would ever pay out.

Microwaves: My first one lasted about 15 years. It's replacement still works although I don't use it anymore (house has a built in.) They are so inexpensive.

[chogan2]

Thanks for the post. I did a presentation on fridges at my church a couple of months back and didn't know this was coming up. We're lending out kill-a-watt meters so that members of the congregation can test their fridges and other appliances. I'm going to work up a handout on this.

A 20-year-old fridge, if its in good condition, will use three to four times as much electricity as a modern equivalent energy-star fridge. And, as with cars, most of the lifetime (dust-to-dust) energy use of a fridge is in the electricity to run it. For this reason a) an old fridge is never a good deal, even if it is free (in the sense of minimizing cost over your lifetime), and b) a new fridge (replacing a 20-year-old one) will typically pay for itself in 3 to 5 years in electricity savings.

The EPA has been on a kick to get folks to junk old fridges for some time now. Here's a link to their fridge calculator, so you can see how much the additional electricity to run your old fridge is costing you.

ENERGY STAR

[jayman]

Well, we have about the cheapest power rates in North America, and the beer fridge only gets used 2-3 months out of the year. There are similar rebates up here, but it's difficult to justify a new fridge just to keep a couple of 12 packs cold over the summer

[chogan2]

Yeah, sure, no problem. The replacement calculation is for your main fridge (24/365). It wouldn't apply to a fridge used part-time. If you use it one-sixth time, it'll take six times as long to pay back, not counting the time value of money. Throw that in, and it probably never pays for itself.

The EPA fridge calculator is there because, for most people, old fridges should be one of those obvious opportunities: saves energy and saves money. But most people will not buy a new appliance until the old one dies. Don't want to "waste" the old one. But in the typical case (not yours), you waste more resources by hanging onto the old one than by buying a new one.

It's the same situation as people who realize that CFLs are better than incandescents, but are waiting for their incandescents to burn out before replacing them with CFLs. Nope, once you get that CFLs are vastly better than incandescents, and do a little homework (to see that the energy cost embodied in the existing incandescent is negligible relative to the energy cost of running it), the right answer is to take out your working incandescents lights and toss them now.

Same logic with old fridges, but most people can't see that. People see that great big metal box. Tossing that, even recycling it, seems wasteful. What they don't see (present company excepted for hydro power) is the enormous pile of coal required to fuel that box every year. If you're in a high-coal-use state, you're talking about something like an additional half-ton plus per year (1000 kwh or more) for the additional electricity required for the 20-year-old fridge relative to the modern one.

So our eyes deceive us. We see the big heavy box. The much larger pile of coal required to fuel it is hypothetical, if we think of it at all. It takes a person of strong will to dump the box you can see in favor of the pile of coal that you can't. Even when the dollars involved say it's a cost-saver.

None of which has anything to do with part-time fridge in a hydro electric area.

[jayman]

Actually, Manitoba Hydro does offer some rebates, usually for the big ticket items: heating, A/C, fridges, cfl's, etc. I got a bottom freezer fridge last year that claims a yearly power consumption of 426 kwh. It seems to work well

The beer fridge is one of those rounded, curvy, weighs-a-ton 50's models. Ok for keeping beer cold in summer, but I sure as hell would not want to live with it all the time

As far as rebates, I would like to see the government and utilities offer more rebates for geothermal heating and a/c. Properly installed, the geothermal systems will have 30-60% of the running cost as conventional gas furnaces and electric a/c

[fuzzy1]

Originally Posted by chogan2

...We're lending out kill-a-watt meters so that members of the congregation can test their fridges and other appliances. ...
... b) a new fridge (replacing a 20-year-old one) will typically pay for itself in 3 to 5 years in electricity savings.

The EPA has been on a kick to get folks to junk old fridges for some time now. Here's a link to their fridge calculator, so you can see how much the additional electricity to run your old fridge is costing you.

ENERGY STAR

This calculator very seriously overestimates my current usage, compared to what my Kill-A-Watt meter shows, even after plugging in correct model number (exactly 20 years old) and utility rate. And even with its optimistic savings overestimate, it would take 12 years to recoup the cost of a cheapest bare-bones new models I see, not any model I'd want to buy.

For the past three years, since upgrading to modern energy efficient washer and dishwasher, I've been keeping my eyes open for a better refrigerator that the spouse will agree to. But the $$ payback is not yet there.

I do recommend that folks use a Kill-A-Watt or other energy monitor to check their usage. While saving energy is a good idea, for some of us the $$ savings is much less that the hype suggests.