ULSD impact on backup generators

[jayman]

Around 2 years ago, I warned a large corporate client about this issue

How will ultra-low sulfur diesel affect data center generator performance?

Although I fully support the use of ULSD in the transportation fleet, most of the backup and stationary diesel engines out there are quite a bit older than the average electronically controlled transportation diesel engine

I don't think its reasonable to expect corporations, and especially hospitals, to replace a 20-30 year old generator with a brand new one. Although these engines are old, most have been exceptionally well maintained and are in excellent mechanical condition

Except for the issue of dealing with modern ULSD. It would be like expecting a 1968 car to run well, with no problems, on 15% ethanol

[Politburo]

Benefits still outweigh the downsides, imo. Even a perfectly maintained 10 year-old generator has much higher emissions than a new unit, upwards of 95% for NOx and PM, and that's just comparing T1 to T4. Who knows what the earlier engines are putting out.

The other question is what the impact of maintaining a high-sulfur infrastructure solely for backup generators would be, and how many people would ruin their shiny new oxidation catalysts by trying to save a few cents...

[DetPrius]

Replacing a generator is even harder to justify than a vehicle given the generator is probably infrequently used.

[richard schumacher]

They'll deal with it. That ship has sailed, and it was long overdue.

[jayman]

Backup generators are infrequently needed, but in many critical situations, such as hospitals, they are absolutely essential. Backup generators are routinely "exercised" for about 20 mins at least once every 2 weeks, preferably once a week

Replacing a prime mover in a large generator is a pretty expensive proposition. Depending on size, you're talking about $25,000, potentially $145,000 for the larger generators

There aren't too many 35 year old vehicles as daily drivers. In most hospitals and telecom buildings, its pretty easy to find a 35 year old prime mover, still in excellent condition. To throw away the motor just because the new fuel is no longer compatible with the fuel injection system, is a bit asinine

[richard schumacher]

So sell retrofit injector kits and, uhh, "clean up" :_> The notion of a hospital (or anyone) spewing known potent carcinogens into the air once a week is more asinine.

[Politburo]

Originally Posted by jayman

To throw away the motor just because the new fuel is no longer compatible with the fuel injection system, is a bit asinine

If all we were talking about is generator sets, then there really isn't any debate. But it doesn't seem like you're looking at the issue in the context of all diesel equipment.

Generator replacements or retrofits are one of the main downsides to ULSD. But there are tremendous benefits from the program, and those overall benefits, imo, offset the impact of facilities having to replace/retrofit perfectly working generators.

Obviously if you own one of those working units, it is unfair.

[jayman]

Well, with budgets stretched razor thin as it is, to expect a hospital to cough up >$100,000 to replace a generator, is a bit unfair.

True enough, there are retrofit kits for the most popular prime movers. The cost approaches 30-50% of the cost of a new genset, as the labor to replace the components isn't that much less, and in some cases is MORE, than to just replace the entire unit

I guess for those not directly impacted by ULSD, it's no big deal. For those who are faced with major repairs, and replacement, due to the use of ULSD, it's one more whack on an already tight budget

[Shawn Clark]

jayman,

I understand where you are coming from with this, but it is just one of those costs that comes with the migration. My experience with hospitals has been that they have more than enough money to cover stuff like this...I could go off on some of the shenanigans some were pulling as supposed non-profit entities. Let's just say that a previous place I lived had some ridiculously high medical costs and the hospital was hurting the community with it's monopolistic position. They seemed to be the primary real estate holder in the municipality as well and many for profit businesses were leasing property from them on which they were not being taxed...again setting the rest of the community back. Quality of service wasn't that great either so we put off some care until we moved.

The one part of the U.S. that has not experienced this recession or even the last is the health care industry.

[NASCAR Mike]

Originally Posted by jayman

Replacing a prime mover in a large generator is a pretty expensive proposition. Depending on size, you're talking about $25,000, potentially $145,000 for the larger generators

At work we are installing a 435kW prime rated diesel generator for a 20,000 SF courthouse. It is costing almost $500k.

A hospital will typically have two generators, one for everything and a second (redunandant) backup generator for emergency lighting and elevators.

The cost for a hospital generator (prime rated) and a secondary (standby rated) will easily break $2 million dollars.

The sulfur in diesel helps with lubricity. ULSD causes increased wear in the fuel system, especially the injectors. You can add diesel treatment to help.

I am sure a typical hospital would rather add diesel treatment than replace a generator.