Global Warming - 2 German cargo ships pass through 'Arctic Passage'

[tripp]

what on earth are you on about? That's not what he's saying at all. Basically, not kicking the hornets' nest. Greed and focus on the short term has created dizzying array of problems, many of which are coming home to roost now.

[jayman]

Well, I'll agree that greed is the cause of many problems. However, ignorance is at the core of many more problems

I don't think anybody, or at least very few people, purposely set out to ruin the environment. After all, they have to live in it too, so unless they are psychotic or have other brain problems, the average human doesn't set out to commit suicide

For example, we once believed that "dilution was the solution." We once believed that single wall underground storage tanks would work just fine and never rot out. There are many examples of well-meaning but ignorant "solutions" to problems

There is a degree of hubris in humans when we believe we always know best, especially when we become fat and lazy on the backs of others. As Tony stated in another thread, we really have NOT solved our pollution issues, we just very conveniently outsourced them to third world nations

As I'm an engineer, folks are always bugging me (Well, ok, they are asking me, but sometimes I feel they are bugging me) about issues like the environment, science, hell, even about money

On the topic of money, I always tell people if they want money, then STOP SPENDING IT. They always appear disappointed at advice like that, maybe they are expecting some magic formula involving phases of the moon and underwear skid marks

On the topic of the environment, I always tell people that if they want to "save" the environment, then STOP BUYING S***. But that will happen when hell itself freezes solid

[PriusLewis]

I certainly don't want to diminish the significance of the passage of the German supercargo's, but I just found an article that said they had the help of 2 Russian icebreakers. So it's not exactly open water up there. That said, it's still more thawed than in the past and will only get worse (or better if you happen to be shipping from Taiwan to Russia).

Here's the article. Note how this article sees this as a Good Thing and totally avoids anything even remotely ecological. But this being the Alaska Dispatch, I'm sure they have a different agenda than we do.

Northeast Passage vs. Northwest Passage

[PriusLewis]

Originally Posted by jayman

On the topic of the environment, I always tell people that if they want to "save" the environment, then STOP BUYING S***. But that will happen when hell itself freezes solid

But Hell is thawing due to Global Warming, so that is a self-defeating prophecy.

[Syclone]

Let's face it guys and Gals. One Solar flare and reduction in Solar activity and we are back into a "mini ice age". And, all of our blather falls right into the proverbial cocked hat.

[jayman]

Originally Posted by PriusLewis

But Hell is thawing due to Global Warming, so that is a self-defeating prophecy.

Smirk

Originally Posted by Syclone

Let's face it guys and Gals. One Solar flare and reduction in Solar activity and we are back into a "mini ice age".

No, we don't need THAT to happen. Though if it DOES happen, remember that the idea to turn freshly dead people into tasty protein bar food, was mine

[Shawn Clark]

I think it is time to start demonstrating the hockey stick from Hell. Hell was frozen over in a glacial period until quite recently (although it was not water ice, but instead a granite cap layer). Thanks to conservative man's abundant greed and unfathomable ignorance, Hell has experienced a long thaw and Satan has at last put away his skates. Even Kenny Lay and Jesse Helms have noticed the warming trend. Word is that Kenny has cornered the market on ice cubes in Hell thanks to his longstanding influence in the government there.

[DaveinOlyWA]

Originally Posted by jayman

Well, I'll agree that greed is the cause of many problems. However, ignorance is at the core of many more problems

I don't think anybody, or at least very few people, purposely set out to ruin the environment. After all, they have to live in it too, so unless they are psychotic or have other brain problems, the average human doesn't set out to commit suicide

very true. the problem with technology is that its very presence means change. now is that change better or worse? well that depends on the person. it seems the younger the person, the more readily they have "reprogramable" brain cells that are willing to accept that change.

the problem in that is the people with the money who can control the course of society are old. many refuse to accept change or new information. which brings us to the real root of the problems. its not oil, lack of recycling, refusal to invest in sustainable living, its the internet.

the internet has caused more confusion, more misinformation and therefore more mis-steps than any other single source in the history of Man. any sort of mis-information can be put out within minutes of an event and within hours it has the potential to become a "well established fact" around the world.

so, the older you are, the more conflicting information one has in their head. many choose not to sort it out (it is NOT an easy task) take sides and defend that side to death!! (ok, maybe a bit dramatic there)

all this creates confusion. all this takes a single well defined goal with easy to understand guidelines with pinpoint accuracy and scatters its message like a prism of light across the world in an instant.

now, we would all be more conservative, more frugal, etc. but the internet has taught us to save, search for the bargain, save a penny here, etc. none of which allows sustainable living since such a thought nearly always requires a larger upfront investment.

that would not be possible since the internet has provided us a much more convenient way to borrow money we cant afford to spend and many more ways to spend it without even having to put our shoes on.

[PriusLewis]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

I think it is time to start demonstrating the hockey stick from Hell. Hell was frozen over in a glacial period until quite recently (although it was not water ice, but instead a granite cap layer). Thanks to conservative man's abundant greed and unfathomable ignorance, Hell has experienced a long thaw and Satan has at last put away his skates. Even Kenny Lay and Jesse Helms have noticed the warming trend. Word is that Kenny has cornered the market on ice cubes in Hell thanks to his longstanding influence in the government there.

[hyo silver]

Originally Posted by DaveinOlyWA

...but the internet has taught us to save, search for the bargain, save a penny here, etc. none of which allows sustainable living...

Advertisers were using the euphemistic 'SAVE' to mean 'SPEND' long before the transistor was ever invented. The internet is the root of the world's problems? Are you sure that's just coffee you're drinking?