Better Place

[DaveinOlyWA]

David Pogue, the tech writer for the NY Times interviewing Shai Agassi, on a new way to promote EV growth

Jump-Starting The Electric Car Dream - CBS News

not sure i am 100% on board with the idea of switchable batteries, but he is moving forward with it and moving fast and imm, any battery is better than what we have now which is essentially NOTHING.

**edit**
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/te...1&8cir&emc=cir

in print and much longer with more details. also touches on the hybrid idea. reading this definitely gets me more interested as the ideology behind the idea is exposed a bit more

[ibcs]

My wish list.

Add a plug to every light pole in a parking lot. Add a meter if you want, I'd be glad to drop money for every hour of charge. Just have the ability to charge when in a parking lot.

---Kent

[daniel]

With fast-charging batteries now available, and likely to become more common, battery-swapping seems to me like an idea that is obsolete before it's practical. It would require double the number of total batteries on the road, would require a high degree of standardization among manufacturers, and would be plagued by the problems of turning in a set of good batteries for a set of worn-out ones.

I agree with the idea of plugs everywhere, with meters if need be.

[Zythryn]

The way it is supposed to work is you drive into the 'station' and the automated system swaps out your old battery for a new one. Never get out of the car, all automatic, takes 2-3 minutes (think car wash).
IF it can work reliably I can easily see the guys doing this BECOMING the standard.
Already plans to do this in Hawaii.

[qbee42]

The swapping is supposed to be for distance driving. Around town you recharge.

The idea of swapping makes sense for the technology at this instant. I suspect advances will quickly overtake this idea. This is the sort of field where the first guys in are going to get clobbered by rapid advances, almost to the point where it paralyzes progress. I wouldn't want to try and pick a winner.

Tom

[DaveinOlyWA]

the news article goes into more depth and takes the battery tech out of the EV option. iow, this eliminates the "what if i buy now and tomorrow a much better battery comes out.

with the batteries being removable and replaceable, changing to the latest and greatest becomes much easier. as long as the standard module is large enough to contain multiple config options, the only thing needed is to match up voltage.

[donee]

250 KW transformers are pretty common in industrial settings (according to ex-CECO engineer aquantaince). Put one out back of a your typical gas station, and you have a quick charging station.

Do not think fast swapping will catch on.

Standardization of the pack interconnects (electrical and cooling) and cavities in the cars to put the batterieis, and bracketry - this would be very beneficial to rapid electricification. Just like it was for rapid floppy-to-hard drive conversion in computers.

[DaveinOlyWA]

well, i never thought fast swapping would catch on because it required a group of companies to all be on the same page. what this company has done is convinced a government to be its "guinea pig/ display model" example.

besides the standard growth model dictates that he start with a localized grid network. build that. then build another in a different area. then provide the swap station to connect them since unlike the CIA or the "hydrogen highway" he is not stupid enough to build a road to nowhere. i think before he gets to that point, he will have either decided to go full on with the swap station or have adjusted his business model. localized charging is a much greater need right now because it addresses the current battery tech issues

trust me, a highly successful working model over a widespread area as big as a whole country will attract major investment money

what this guy has going is very interesting in that its way beyond the "lets talk" stage. i hope that initial reports on the progress will be available by this summer.

now one thing i do want to clarify here... i do not expect this to be the "be all" solution in any way whatsoever. i am fully convinced that our energy needs are simply way too great for that. the energy to replace oil must come from from several different sources in several different ways to effectively overcome each sources shortcomings.

this is looking like a great source for a significant portion of our energy needs in very large category of transportation. so cherrypick your issues. but i applaud the guy for his ability to organize and mostly for HIS ABILITY TO GET OFF HIS ASS AND DO SOMETHING

[rpatterman]

Originally Posted by daniel

With fast-charging batteries now available, and likely to become more common, battery-swapping seems to me like an idea that is obsolete before it's practical. It would require double the number of total batteries on the road, would require a high degree of standardization among manufacturers, and would be plagued by the problems of turning in a set of good batteries for a set of worn-out ones.

I agree with the idea of plugs everywhere, with meters if need be.

I agree, this is a VERY limited business plan. The expense of have auto swap hardware and multiple batteries at thousands of locations is a deal killer. Not to mention a standard battery location, size and access for millions of different cars and trucks. Might work in a very isolated location (think island) or if government mandated a "standard" design (very bad idea).
Key words are "obsolete before it's practical".

I think we will quickly have "smart" chargers at many locations capable of reading your battery "SPECS" and quickly re-charging while you have lunch, shop, work, pray, etc. The smart money will be developing the smart "one size fits all" charger, hooking it up to a credit card reader and selling juice at 150%-200% markup. These will be as common as venting machines. Restaurants, stores, churches and gas stations will lease them or give you the space for a percentage.

Between overnight charging (at time-of-day rates!!!), opportunity charging and the occasional "pay-to-charge", an EV will work for everything EXCEPT the LA to NY in 36 hours mad dash. Or the long road trip to the middle of frickin nowhere.

[FL_Prius_Driver]

To be fair, the plan has a couple of upsides, even if the overall effort does not work out.
1) It is being done by a firm that is economically motivated to do it right. Lot's of unsolvable problems are solved when the motivation is channeled to engineering solutions rather than manipulating opinion.
2) While a battery pack is a big thing to change out, A tractor-trailer shift is done quite fast and these loads are much bigger than a battery pack. Heck, look how fast tire changes can be done at a NASCAR race. If someone were to give me a million dollars to engineer a way of changing out a battery pack automatically in under a minute, I bet I could figure out a way.
3) The threshold for success is profitability, not universal popularity or even universal acceptance. Very few people run their house from 100% solar energy, but the inverter and solar panel market look pretty healthy to me.