I like my Mariner Hybrid

[GoCarGo]

2000 miles on my '08 Mariner Hybrid and no problems to report. 31 mpg avg with AC on here in Atlanta summer weather. I have the fully optioned Mariner and fully optioned '08 Prius with which to compare. 3500 miles on Prius, 42 mpg avg.

Mariner Negative's.. must use a key for everything. Drivers door lock knob annoy's my arm when resting on the sill. Does not have auto window up. Maximum 6-foot length flat objects interior storage (versus 8-foot in Prius). No Homelink. No BiXenon headlights. No Bluetooth. $4,000 more than pkg 6 Prius. No Backup camera. Very much less glove compartment storage space. Rear passanger cup holder is in my elbow way when in use.. expect to elbow coffe everywhere. AC compressor is connected to Gas engine, I see an immedate 2 mpg drop when in use and seldom is the ICE not running when AC on. (Prius AC compressor is electric and I see only 1 mpg drop and ICE runs less with AC on).

Positives.. nicely appointed midsize suv and very attractive with very few seen (whereas the Escape Hybrid is a step down cosmetically with black plastic appointments, plain grill and rear bumper). Sound system is better than Prius and 6 mos free Sirius satellite radio is a huge plus. Electric and multi-adjustible drivers seat is ok. Nice moonroof. Nice chrome grill and bumpers. Front wheel drive for suv is ok. Large outside rearview mirrors ok. Rear back up beeping sensors. 110-vac on dash is nice too. Dual climate control. Very nice and shiney wheels.

The MMH is nice for driving on my ranch with long gravel roads and in fields and for visiting my construction sites. Has very good ground clearance and saves my Prius for a long life for on road use only. I drive the Prius as often as I can and enjoy the sporty feel around town and use the Prius when on long trips and while on vacations. I also have small and large pickup trucks to take up the Slack when needing to haul large loads.

The 450 miles per week I drive did not justify my buying Hybrids, but in my case I traded in older cars for the newer hybrids, spending only a few thousand cash and NO financing. I'm a believer that unless you drive 30,000 miles or more a year that the Toyota Corolla (same size to the Prius) gets 30 mpg with auto tranny is a much better choice if you have to borrow money to buy a car. Please realize that the $10,000 you save with the Corolla will drive you 60,000 miles at $5 per gallon, whereas the Prius will be sitting in the parking lot with zero miles.

[JackDodge]

Originally Posted by GoCarGo

2000 miles on my '08 Mariner Hybrid and no problems to report. 31 mpg avg with AC on here in Atlanta summer weather. I have the fully optioned Mariner and fully optioned '08 Prius with which to compare. 3500 miles on Prius, 42 mpg avg.

Mariner Negative's.. must use a key for everything. Drivers door lock knob annoy's my arm when resting on the sill. Does not have auto window up. Maximum 6-foot length flat objects interior storage (versus 8-foot in Prius). No Homelink. No BiXenon headlights. No Bluetooth. $4,000 more than pkg 6 Prius. No Backup camera. Very much less glove compartment storage space. Rear passanger cup holder is in my elbow way when in use.. expect to elbow coffe everywhere. AC compressor is connected to Gas engine, I see an immedate 2 mpg drop when in use and seldom is the ICE not running when AC on. (Prius AC compressor is electric and I see only 1 mpg drop and ICE runs less with AC on).

Positives.. nicely appointed midsize suv and very attractive with very few seen (whereas the Escape Hybrid is a step down cosmetically with black plastic appointments, plain grill and rear bumper). Sound system is better than Prius and 6 mos free Sirius satellite radio is a huge plus. Electric and multi-adjustible drivers seat is ok. Nice moonroof. Nice chrome grill and bumpers. Front wheel drive for suv is ok. Large outside rearview mirrors ok. Rear back up beeping sensors. 110-vac on dash is nice too. Dual climate control. Very nice and shiney wheels.

The MMH is nice for driving on my ranch with long gravel roads and in fields and for visiting my construction sites. Has very good ground clearance and saves my Prius for a long life for on road use only. I drive the Prius as often as I can and enjoy the sporty feel around town and use the Prius when on long trips and while on vacations. I also have small and large pickup trucks to take up the Slack when needing to haul large loads.

The 450 miles per week I drive did not justify my buying Hybrids, but in my case I traded in older cars for the newer hybrids, spending only a few thousand cash and NO financing. I'm a believer that unless you drive 30,000 miles or more a year that the Toyota Corolla (same size to the Prius) gets 30 mpg with auto tranny is a much better choice if you have to borrow money to buy a car. Please realize that the $10,000 you save with the Corolla will drive you 60,000 miles at $5 per gallon, whereas the Prius will be sitting in the parking lot with zero miles.

That was the one thing that was a deal breaker for me with the Escape/Mariner hybrids: you cannot run the A/C in EV mode. It's also Gen I technology that Ford got from Toyota so it's not state of the art but I know a guy who's pretty good at getting good mileage with his Escape hybrid at 35 mpg. That's a little better than my HiHy.

[GoCarGo]

Yeah, the HyHi was considerably more expensive and the 25mpg avg didn't cut it for me, although I would have preferred owning a Toyota suv. Except for pickup trucks, I never keep cars or suv's longer than 2 or 3 years so I was comfortable with the MMH warranty... which coincedently is identical to Prius warranty.

[JackDodge]

Originally Posted by GoCarGo

Yeah, the HyHi was considerably more expensive and the 25mpg avg didn't cut it for me, although I would have preferred owning a Toyota suv. Except for pickup trucks, I never keep cars or suv's longer than 2 or 3 years so I was comfortable with the MMH warranty... which coincedently is identical to Prius warranty.

25 mpg? I got better than that in the coldest winter months. Currently, I'm getting 32. That's pretty good considering that the engine has 6 cylinders and the HiHy is bigger than the Ford hybrid. Still, I would've preferred a 4-cylinder Rav4 but did Toyota listen? nooooooo

[Danny Hamilton]

While I would agree that the Corolla is a great vehicle, and that the Prius isn't the right car for everyone, I'd like to point out that there seem to be a few mathematical and factual errors in your comments.

To start with the base price of a Corrola is $16,250 and the base price of a Prius is $21,500. Therefore the price difference is only $5,250, not $10,000. A comparably equipped Corolla is more like $17,570 leaving a price difference of only $3,930

Next, your math seems to assume 30 MPG from the Corolla. The EPA rating is 29 (combined). While it is possible to match or even exceed the EPA MPG rating for any vehicle, the average driver typically tends to get less MPG than the EPA in any vehicle they drive. You have obviously already discovered this with both your Prius at 42 MPG (EPA 46 MPG) and your Mariner at 31 MPG (EPA 32 MPG).

Using your choice of 30 MPG for the Corolla, your indication of 450 miles per year, and the 3 years you indicate you typically own a vehicle, and comparing that to my real life 53 MPG from the Prius, I find that 3 years of driving works out to 70,200 miles. The Corolla would use 2,340 gallons of gas while the Prius would use 1,320 gallons. At (your choice) an average of $5 per gallon over those 70,200 miles, this would indicate $11,700 in fuel for the Corolla, and only $6,600 for the Prius. As such the Prius saves $5,100 in fuel over 60,000 miles as compared to the Corolla. At a purchase price difference of $3,930 this means that the Prius comes out ahead by $1,170.

Additionally you indicate that the Corolla is "same size to the Prius". And yet, the Prius has 9% more rear leg room, 11.7% more rear hip room, 5.9% more cargo volume, 6.5% more interior volume, and weighs 13% more.

Among other things, the following standard Prius features are not even available on a Corolla: traction control, low tire pressure indication, automatic A/C, steering wheel audio controls, illuminated vanity mirrors, one-touch driver's window, and rear window wiper.

So, more space, more features, better for the environment (for those who care about such things), less money to foreign oil (for those who care about such things), more options available, more advanced technology, reduced maintenance costs, and this with a lower purchase+fuel cost. Additionally there is the very real possibility of increased trade-in value and higher reliability. Why exactly are you recommending the Corolla over the Prius for anyone who can afford the initial purchase of the Prius and drives more than 45,000 miles before replacing the vehicle?

[mingoglia]

Originally Posted by Danny Hamilton

While I would agree that the Corolla is a great vehicle, and that the Prius isn't the right car for everyone, I'd like to point out that there seem to be a few mathematical and factual errors in your comments.

To start with the base price of a Corrola is $16,250 and the base price of a Prius is $21,500. Therefore the price difference is only $5,250, not $10,000. A comparably equipped Corolla is more like $17,570 leaving a price difference of only $3,930

Next, your math seems to assume 30 MPG from the Corolla. The EPA rating is 29 (combined). While it is possible to match or even exceed the EPA MPG rating for any vehicle, the average driver typically tends to get less MPG than the EPA in any vehicle they drive. You have obviously already discovered this with both your Prius at 42 MPG (EPA 46 MPG) and your Mariner at 31 MPG (EPA 32 MPG).

Using your choice of 30 MPG for the Corolla, your indication of 450 miles per year, and the 3 years you indicate you typically own a vehicle, and comparing that to my real life 53 MPG from the Prius, I find that 3 years of driving works out to 70,200 miles. The Corolla would use 2,340 gallons of gas while the Prius would use 1,320 gallons. At (your choice) an average of $5 per gallon over those 70,200 miles, this would indicate $11,700 in fuel for the Corolla, and only $6,600 for the Prius. As such the Prius saves $5,100 in fuel over 60,000 miles as compared to the Corolla. At a purchase price difference of $3,930 this means that the Prius comes out ahead by $1,170.

Additionally you indicate that the Corolla is "same size to the Prius". And yet, the Prius has 9% more rear leg room, 11.7% more rear hip room, 5.9% more cargo volume, 6.5% more interior volume, and weighs 13% more.

Among other things, the following standard Prius features are not even available on a Corolla: traction control, low tire pressure indication, automatic A/C, steering wheel audio controls, illuminated vanity mirrors, one-touch driver's window, and rear window wiper.

So, more space, more features, better for the environment (for those who care about such things), less money to foreign oil (for those who care about such things), more options available, more advanced technology, reduced maintenance costs, and this with a lower purchase+fuel cost. Additionally there is the very real possibility of increased trade-in value and higher reliability. Why exactly are you recommending the Corolla over the Prius for anyone who can afford the initial purchase of the Prius and drives more than 45,000 miles before replacing the vehicle?

Can't put it much better than that. I try similar arguments. Just about 90 minutes ago I had a lunch meeting with my partner and a contract developer. The contract developer has a 07 (non-hybrid) Civic. He said, "Mike, I didn't realize these were such nice cars inside" as we came back from lunch. My business partner then said, "yea, but you have to replace the main battery in hybrids every 2 years so the savings in gas isn't worth it". This is coming from a guy that currently owns a Bentley GT and a Mercedes S550 which adds to the cost-conscience irony of his statement. I always summarize by saying, "a base Prius retails for a bit over $20k. It's a darn good car for $20k regardless of it's propulsion. Consider the fact that it's hybrid and gets 50mpg a added bonus to an already good car".

[JackDodge]

Originally Posted by Danny Hamilton

While I would agree that the Corolla is a great vehicle, and that the Prius isn't the right car for everyone, I'd like to point out that there seem to be a few mathematical and factual errors in your comments.

To start with the base price of a Corrola is $16,250 and the base price of a Prius is $21,500. Therefore the price difference is only $5,250, not $10,000. A comparably equipped Corolla is more like $17,570 leaving a price difference of only $3,930

Next, your math seems to assume 30 MPG from the Corolla. The EPA rating is 29 (combined). While it is possible to match or even exceed the EPA MPG rating for any vehicle, the average driver typically tends to get less MPG than the EPA in any vehicle they drive. You have obviously already discovered this with both your Prius at 42 MPG (EPA 46 MPG) and your Mariner at 31 MPG (EPA 32 MPG).

Using your choice of 30 MPG for the Corolla, your indication of 450 miles per year, and the 3 years you indicate you typically own a vehicle, and comparing that to my real life 53 MPG from the Prius, I find that 3 years of driving works out to 70,200 miles. The Corolla would use 2,340 gallons of gas while the Prius would use 1,320 gallons. At (your choice) an average of $5 per gallon over those 70,200 miles, this would indicate $11,700 in fuel for the Corolla, and only $6,600 for the Prius. As such the Prius saves $5,100 in fuel over 60,000 miles as compared to the Corolla. At a purchase price difference of $3,930 this means that the Prius comes out ahead by $1,170.

Additionally you indicate that the Corolla is "same size to the Prius". And yet, the Prius has 9% more rear leg room, 11.7% more rear hip room, 5.9% more cargo volume, 6.5% more interior volume, and weighs 13% more.

Among other things, the following standard Prius features are not even available on a Corolla: traction control, low tire pressure indication, automatic A/C, steering wheel audio controls, illuminated vanity mirrors, one-touch driver's window, and rear window wiper.

So, more space, more features, better for the environment (for those who care about such things), less money to foreign oil (for those who care about such things), more options available, more advanced technology, reduced maintenance costs, and this with a lower purchase+fuel cost. Additionally there is the very real possibility of increased trade-in value and higher reliability. Why exactly are you recommending the Corolla over the Prius for anyone who can afford the initial purchase of the Prius and drives more than 45,000 miles before replacing the vehicle?

Having a bad day? The base price Prius may be $21,500 but Toyota mostly ships the cars that sticker for around $29,000. I've only seen one base Prius and the guy who bought it had to order it specially. A lot of people get less than the EPA estimates on any vehicle, even after they've been lowered to reflect what an impantient jerk can expect, because of the way that they drive, not because the EPA estimates are wrong. I drove a Corolla before they dumbed down the EPA estimates and I got 32 easily most of the year and 36 in the summer. You are needlessly nitpicking.

[priusenvy]

Originally Posted by Danny Hamilton

While I would agree that the Corolla is a great vehicle, and that the Prius isn't the right car for everyone, I'd like to point out that there seem to be a few mathematical and factual errors in your comments.

Sounds like you're comparing the Prius against a 2008 Corolla, as your numbers are definitely off for a 2009. The Corolla is a new design for 2009, and has grown significantly, just as the Camry did when it was redesigned for 2007. The result is that the Prius is more similar in size to the new Corolla rather than the new Camry. Before the redesigns, the opposite was true.

[Danny Hamilton]

Originally Posted by JackDodge

Having a bad day?

Nah, having a pretty good day today.

Originally Posted by JackDodge

The base price Prius may be $21,500 but Toyota mostly ships the cars that sticker for around $29,000.

Certainly, but then you get quite a few added features for that additional price. The extra cash is for the extra features, not for the Prius. Add those same features to the Corolla and the Price of the Corolla goes up too. Don't add the features to the Corolla and you are no longer comparing cars that can be described as similar.

Originally Posted by JackDodge

A lot of people get less than the EPA estimates on any vehicle, even after they've been lowered to reflect what an impantient jerk can expect, because of the way that they drive, not because the EPA estimates are wrong.

Yep, this is exactly what I was saying.

Originally Posted by JackDodge

I drove a Corolla before they dumbed down the EPA estimates and I got 32 easily most of the year and 36 in the summer.

That's great. As I mentioned, I'm getting 53 MPG out of the Prius that currently sports an EPA MPG of 45. The point is that , considering the fact that typical drivers frequently don't attain EPA MPG out of their vehicle, unless you happen to know that the person you are recommending the Corolla to would get EPA MPG out of the Corolla, it may not be a fair cost comparison to say that the purchase savings would attain 60,000 miles.

Originally Posted by JackDodge

You are needlessly nitpicking.

I am most certainly nitpicking. And for that matter, I'll fully acknowledge that I cherry picked numbers that would prove my point. It is unlikely that a typical purchaser will find a Prius for $21,500, it is unlikely that an average driver will have a lifetime average of 53 MPG, and gas prices may not average $5 over the next 3 years. Many drivers will not drive 60,000 miles in 3 years or even 45,000 for that matter.

The decision to purchase any particular vehicle is a very personal and individual one and for some people trying to choose between the Corolla and the Prius, the Corolla may be the better option. For others the Prius will be the better option.

I only offered my "cherry picked and nitpicking" analysis as a contrast to the cherry picked and nitpicking analysis from GoCarGo suggesting that the Corolla is always the better option for anyone who drives less than 30,000 miles per year.

Clearly depending on the motivations, resources, and emotions of the purchaser, either of us, or neither of us will be making the right recommendation. At least now anyone who is trying to decide and comes across this thread will have 2 equally skewed and flawed analysis to consider. Perhaps this will motivate them to investigate a bit further and discover which vehicle they really would prefer.

[Danny Hamilton]

EDIT: I JUST DOUBLE CHECKED. WHILE I DID NOT REALIZE THE COROLLA WAS REDESIGNED, THE NUMBERS I USED FOR THE COMPARISON WERE FOR THE 2009 COROLLA. I SIMPLY DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE PRE-2009 COROLLA WAS SO MUCH WORSE THAN MY ANALYSIS INDICATES. IT SEEMS I WAS COMPARING A 2008 PRIUS TO A 2009 COROLLA.

Originally Posted by priusenvy

Sounds like you're comparing the Prius against a 2008 Corolla, as your numbers are definitely off for a 2009.

I hadn't realized the Corolla was redesigned. You are correct, I was comparing a 2008 Prius to a 2008 Corolla. As such if the prices and designs of the 2009 Prius and 2009 Corolla differ from my analysis above, then the math may need to be reworked, and depending on the design, features, and prices, the Corolla may or may not become a closer competitor to the Prius. I don't have the time to redo the research right now. I'll leave that for anyone trying to decide between the vehicles.

Edit: I did the research a second time and still screwed it up. See following posts for a better, more honest, and more accurate look at the size differences as determined by "priusenvy"