Co-worker Hypocrisy

[molgrips]

by destroying the ozone layer, you are accellerating warming, aren't you?[/b]

No. The ozone layer is recovering as PA rightly said. Oh and PA, yes he is paying the price with fuel costs but he can afford it, he makes lots of money. The problem is that other people have to pay for it too in terms of environmental degradation.

Petty desires? Oh please. Live your life and just leave your friend alone.[/b]

It'd only be smug if it was some kind of accident that I drove a cleaner car. It's not, I paid a lot of money for one because I have a conscience.

People need to have their attitudes changed somehow cos they won't change on their own. Who's going to do the changing? The media? Politicians? I deliberately pricked my friend's consicence because we've talked about it many times before. He is against selfish pollution in theory; but when it came time to get a new car, he gave in to his selfish desires. That just isn't cool.

[dbermanmd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(molgrips @ Aug 29 2006, 06:20 AM) [snapback]311028[/snapback]</div>

I'm posting this in the Main forum because I am interested in as big a sweep of opinion as possible, rather than just the tree-huggers on the environment forum

So a friend of mine likes to vociferously complain about the bad people of the world. Being a fellow Brit, he complains about pretty much everything. On a recent trip to Florida with his family he came back apparently disgusted with the overconsumption of petrol by the American public, driving everywhere in gigantic SUVs. They had two cars at the time, a frugal diesel Vauxhall Safira and a very old Renault Clio, also reasonable. So fair enough, I couldn't fault him too much although he did drive to work instead of taking a train.

A few months after listening to him rant about the disgusting greed of the SUV drivers he has gone and bought a BMW 328. Not the worst gas guzzler around, but certainly quite poor by UK standards, getting about 30mpg. The thing is, he could very easily have bought a diesel BMW with just as much power, or he could have got one with a smaller engine. The 2.8 litre V6 offers him no advantage over a more economical car, he just likes to zoom around.

He claims that as long as half of America is driving around in 15mpg SUVs, it doesn't make any difference what he drives.

Discuss.
[/b]

Since he could not beat us he joined us
That is the beauty of democracy - freedom of choice.
He should have gone with the Lexus IS diesel by the way.

[Rancid13]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(molgrips @ Aug 29 2006, 03:20 AM) [snapback]311028[/snapback]</div>

He claims that as long as half of America is driving around in 15mpg SUVs, it doesn't make any difference what he drives.
[/b]

Unfortunately that is the same mindset that a lot of folks have these days, which is quite sad IMO. If everyone else is going to keep driving around in their gas guzzling SUV's, why should I be the one who's a little different and buy something that makes more economical and environmental sense?

[triphop]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(geologyrox @ Aug 29 2006, 08:47 PM) [snapback]311381[/snapback]</div>

I'm not sure where I found that first, but I saw it a couple of times and decided I liked it too =P
[/b]

Pretty sure its Farkism. That and assclown, and UFIA, and Moran, and....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rancid13 @ Sep 1 2006, 02:28 PM) [snapback]312869[/snapback]</div>

If everyone else is going to keep driving around in their gas guzzling SUV's, why should I be the one who's a little different and buy something that makes more economical and environmental sense?
[/b]

This problem is called the Prisoners Dilemma or the Tragedy of the Commons. Its what happens when greed wins out against the good of the whole. Its the main reason why govt. regulation is required.

PS. Watch out for dbermands "FACTS" - he tends to post things and then, when challenged on them, starts making stuff up. Colbert has a word for it: Truthiness.

[novacustard]

Yes the 'everyone else does it so I can too' line of argument works everytime when you need to justify the unjustifiable.
Leaving aside the choice of car - for which incidentally, I hope he has to pay the fuel bills for, the same argument is used in the middle of a drought when, because the water resevoirs are nearly dry, people justify the misuse of water for cleaning cars, watering grass etc, saying 'its alright, because the water companies loose so much water through the pipes'.
Its the same line of stupidity and blinkered outlook that lead to the demise of the Easter islanders (according to the generally accepted line of history). - Lets cut down the last remaining trees to transport are newly carved images of the current leader, even though there arent any other trees left, and we won't be bale to make canoes to go fishing...

[molgrips]

He does have to pay fuel yes. but he can afford it. Interestingly, it's an older BMW and he bought cash, so his fuel is probably less than my fuel plus my car payments.

Does that make me hypocritical for buying a new car instead of using an old one?

[triphop]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(molgrips @ Sep 2 2006, 09:15 AM) [snapback]313022[/snapback]</div>

He does have to pay fuel yes. but he can afford it. Interestingly, it's an older BMW and he bought cash, so his fuel is probably less than my fuel plus my car payments.

Does that make me hypocritical for buying a new car instead of using an old one?
[/b]

Hypocritical - no, I think that hypocrits avoid asking those kind of questions in order to not face the answer. Here's part of my reasoning around the prius:

1. Eco - reduce carbon footprint.
2. Economic - reduce petrol costs
3. Safety - with sideair bags, its one of the safest "small" cars out there.
4. Features - wife is realtor - always on phone, always needs nav - QED.

PS. I am not the full time driver, my wife is. She drives lots more than me, ferrying the kids, doing her job, etc. I ride the bus & my trusty raleigh comfort bike mostly.

PPS. I try to avoid judging others choices (sometimes I shake my head in resigned amazement at the BS I see around me). I do note what my friends do with respect to the environment and comment when they won't get too defensive.

[SW03ES]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(molgrips @ Sep 1 2006, 05:57 AM) [snapback]312647[/snapback]</div>

No. The ozone layer is recovering as PA rightly said. Oh and PA, yes he is paying the price with fuel costs
It'd only be smug if it was some kind of accident that I drove a cleaner car. It's not, I paid a lot of money for one because I have a conscience.

People need to have their attitudes changed somehow cos they won't change on their own. Who's going to do the changing? The media? Politicians? I deliberately pricked my friend's consicence because we've talked about it many times before. He is against selfish pollution in theory; but when it came time to get a new car, he gave in to his selfish desires. That just isn't cool.
[/b]

Well by your own admission you're obviously a superior person than your friend because you bought a Prius.

If I were your friend I'd want you to do me a favor and just never talk to me again if you feel that way. It won't be his loss.

Its attitudes like yours that make me emberassed to own a Prius.

[Somechic]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(molgrips @ Aug 29 2006, 06:20 AM) [snapback]311028[/snapback]</div>

On a recent trip to Florida with his family he came back apparently disgusted with the overconsumption of petrol by the American public, driving everywhere in gigantic SUVs.

He claims that as long as half of America is driving around in 15mpg SUVs, it doesn't make any difference what he drives.
[/b]

Your friend/co-worker visited Florida, Orlando to be more specific. Keep in mind, a majority of people drive RENTAL vehicles there because they, like your friend, are on vacation. Which means they may need to cart around kids, luggage, etc.

After his visit, his conclusion is "...half of America is driving around in 15mpg SUVs..."

That's faulty reasoning.

Never judge something just by what you heard or have seen.

[DocVijay]

Just drive what you want to drive and let others drive what they want to drive. Everyone has a right to choose their own.