The Fahrenheit 9/11 Thread

[Danny]

This is the official Fahrenheit 9/11 discussion thread. Please watch your tempers, do not personally attack anyone, and keep things fairly civil.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/f...fahrenheit_911/
http://www.fahrenheit911.com
Actual Trailer (wmv):
mms://st11g1.services.att-idns.net/v1/1084/3135/moore/f911_300.wmv

"I call upon all nations...to do everything they can...to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. Now watch this drive."
-George W. Bush delivering a national security address on the back nine

So, the trailer's been released and it's already caused server crashes across the world due to traffic.

The following is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth:

For many of us, this is going to be a defining movie/moment of our generation. You can like Michael Moore, you can hate him. But you can't deny that he makes quality documentary films (namely Bowling for Columbine) that make the viewer think and analyze.

Could this be the downfall of the Bush presidency? It certainly isn't going to raise his already term-low approval numbers.

Could this wake up America to finally take a stand against these actions that have been "taken for our benefit" such as the Patriot Act? I hope so.

I personally can't wait to see this film. And I also believe that it can make a run at Spider-Man 2 for the highest grossing movie of the summer.

Let's hear what you have to say.

[efusco]

I'm trying to keep an open mind about this, but I have to say as someone who was absolutely opposed to going into Iraq when and the way we did and was vocal about it. And as someone who is appauled that things like the Patriot Act were ever even seriously considered by anyone in power in the US (Remember Orwell's Animal Farm?). And who is disgusted that we're even considering a constitutional amendment that would outright take away someone's civil rights rather than add or protect them (Gay Marriage). I have to think this movie will reinforce and probably increase my ill feelings about this administration and it's policies.

But, like I said, I'm trying to keep an open mind.

[Sun__Tzu]

I read Stupid White Men a few years ago and became a huge fan of Michael Moore. And even though I was a bit disappointed with his latest book (Al Franken's was much funnier and better written), I think Bowling for Columbine was an excellent movie. Thanks to Moore, I think I froth a bit at the mouth now, something I'm sure people find absolutely charming about me.

I agree with Danny, that Bowling ultimately made the audience think about the issue, rather than forcing an opinion upon them. I went in thinking "of course guns kill people, so gun control would mean lower homicide rates." But Moore even questioned this leftist view, citing Canada's high rate of gun ownership and low homicide rate. Some of my friends who didn't like it say "the movie had no main point." I tell them "that WAS the point, you're suppose to debate it afterward."

If Fahrenheit 9/11 is going to spark debate, it'll only be in that 2% of the population that doesn't already love or loath Bush. For me, there's absolutely nothing that he can do at this point to win my vote. I'd vote for Kodos or Kang before I vote for Dubya. But I'm still watching this movie, if for nothing else than to learn some new talking points.

[eg239]

Originally posted by Sun__Tzu
 Some of my friends who didn't like it say \"the movie had no main point.\"  I tell them \"that WAS the point, you're suppose to debate it afterward.\"  

Not to spark off any flame wars or anything, but maybe part of the problem your friends encountered was walking into it expecting a "move" and getting information instead.

I thought BFC was really well done considering the highly sensitive subject matter, but I can't help but wonder if Fahrenheit 9/11 is Moore's effort to "top" Bowling. I'll be going to see it either way and I'll have to form my opinion then.

Did anyone watch TV Nation or The Awful Truth? I thought those were both brilliant (and damn funny).

[DaveG]

I agree with a previous post - doesn't matter if you agree with Moore, or disagree, his movies GET PEOPLE TALKING and THINKING about the people that we elect to lead our countries.

And that's what democracy and free speech is all about.

There's far too much voter apathy, usually due to people thinking that "no matter who you put in office, it won't matter - they'll all do a lousy job."

Well, as we've all found out over the past few years, it DOES matter who's in office when it comes down to making important, life or death decisions.

I personally agree with him, but even if I didn't, I'd fully support his right to make a movie and present his point of view.

I think there are going to be a lot of people (mainly politicians and big-business) who will really hate his movie and will try different ways of preventing people from seeing it.

And when they try and trample on his rights to put forth his point of view, and attack him personally, you know that they're afraid...

Dave

[eg239]

Alright, I just saw the trailer.

... is three weeks up yet?

[bookrats]

Originally posted by Sun__Tzu
If Fahrenheit 9/11 is going to spark debate, it'll only be in that 2% of the population that doesn't already love or loath Bush.  For me, there's absolutely nothing that he can do at this point to win my vote.  I'd vote for Kodos or Kang before I vote for Dubya.  But I'm still watching this movie, if for nothing else than to learn some new talking points.

Agree with everything here. I look forward to the movie, but I have no great hopes that this will be the straw that breaks the Cheney/Bush admin's back.

Plus, I think there have been some FrontLine documentaries on PBS that have made the point more accurately and tellingly than Moore's movie will. With less panache, and less underlining of the obvious absurdities; but with harder and more unassailable facts.

I personally find Moore to be something of a jackass; but the same can be said of some other directors/writers/creators who've done excellent work. Separate the artist from the work.

But from your mouth to God's ear, Danny!

[Sun__Tzu]

Originally posted by eg239+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eg239)</div>

Not to spark off any flame wars or anything, but maybe part of the problem your friends encountered was walking into it expecting a "move" and getting information instead. [/b]

Well, I think the real problem is that those few friends are pretty conservative, and had their minds made up before seeing the movie. Based on their reactions, I'm not sure Moore movies are good vehicles of persuasion, so much as a means of firing up the liberal base. The only complaint I heard from my liberal friends was that it was a half hour too long.

And yeah, I saw a season of The Awful Truth. Pretty good stuff : )

20 days and counting

[daniel]

I went in to Bowling for Columbine expecting an anti-gun movie. Since I am 100% anti-guns myself, I was disappointed that it is not anti-gun. I have since had absurd arguments with conservatives who have not seen the movie, in which they denounce it as anti-gun, and I try to convince them (without success) that it is not.

It took me a while to decide that what Moore is really denouncing in BfC is the climate of fear in the U.S. Of course, the Bush administration does everything it can to increase the level of fear and play on it for political power.

F.D.R. said, at a time of great crisis, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." Bush says there are evil people out there and we must fear them, and give up our basic Constitutional rights in order for Big Brother to save us from the devil incarnate.

I'm looking forward to seeing Fahrenheit 911. I think Disney probably doubled or quadrupled the number of people who will see it, and i think that's a good thing.

[rflagg]

What, no one likes "Roger and Me"? Growing up in the Tri-Cities area where Moore is from - man do they hate him there. Why? Well, mainly because of his showing how horrible Flint really was at that time - and still is in some areas. Plus, he was one of the few who 'broke the mold' of not going to work at Dow Chemical or GM in the area - kind of like how everyone here looks at Madonna, too (she's from Bay City)

-m.