Windows vs Mac

daniel · 10-02-2006, 10:36 AM

I appologize for posting my Mac = Unix = Nice quip in the Vista RC1 thread.

Squid says that bragging about using a Mac is like bragging about being crippled. I say it's like gloating about living in a neutral city when a gang-war between an evil capitalist and the mafia is destroying everyplace else.

Sure, I've had to search out software that would do what I wanted. But at least my OS is not blinking at me every minute and a half, and I don't have "security" software hogging all my resources and spinning my HD constantly.

Alric · 10-02-2006, 10:38 AM

If you buy a Mac you can run Mac and Windows (or anything else). Virtual or Native. No reason for choosing either..

Cheers.

Proco · 10-02-2006, 11:24 AM

First, let me admit that I know nothing about Macs. I've done software development in Windows & UNIX environments, though.

I admit the main reason I use Windows is because it's ubiquitous. When my PC fried a year ago, I got another Windows machine because I didn't want to spend extra bucks for Mac versions of my existing software. The biggest problem I have with MS is how bloated their software is. Rather than give us a clean, relatively bug-free software release, they try to shove in as many features as possible. When you do that, you're going to introduce more bugs than you can reasonably catch.

I've always thought, for the home computer market, Mac was a superior product. Unfortunately, they shot themselves in the foot by keeping their technology proprietary. If they had allowed clones to be made in the 80's, we could have had "Mac-compatible" machines with real GUI rather than "PC-compatible" ones with nothing but MS-DOS 2.2 and an added Hercules video card. And who knows which way technological innovation would have gone.

I really like the Linux box I have at work, but it's not user-friendly enough for the basic home market. Heck, I had to have a co-worker recompile my kernel so my network card would work. That's not something the average person can do. For techies, though, I think it's the best option. Especially when you throw open source into the mix.

EricGo · 10-02-2006, 11:38 AM

I had notions last year of changing my home over to Linux from Macintosh (four people, 4 -6 computers) but backed off when I was the only one interested (read: would not kill me if I tried).

MS crud is not an option, so I imagine we'll stay Mac so long as it is a viable platform, and move to an open source OS eventually.

Mystery Squid · 10-02-2006, 11:57 AM

Quick and dirty...

All kidding aside (there goes the fun part...

), it really should pivot around what your primary usage is. Each perform spectacularly within various respects, the question is, what's yours?

I've ran XP since the day it was released, and have had few problems over the years. As a matter of fact, I've never had it crash a-la '98 style blue screen... I'm running a bunch of multi-media applications, it's primarily a gaming machine. I'm not into audio and video manipulation, and I believe MAC might be superior in that respect.

I did, however, notice MAC is very limited in terms of configuring, you seem to have limited options whenever some issue comes up. Problem with MAC, IMO is, they try and make it too idiot-proof. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it seems like whenever problems arise with MAC/its software thereof, I feel far more limited in trying to resolve the problem, seems like I don't have a lot of room to operate, so to speak...

Sort of the same thing with Ipods. There are plenty of better devices out there ( IMHO of course), but because it looks nice, it sells.

Marlin · 10-02-2006, 12:06 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 2 2006, 10:36 AM) [snapback]326841[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

But at least my OS is not blinking at me every minute and a half, and I don't have "security" software hogging all my resources and spinning my HD constantly.
[/b]

Mac community must wake up to security

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("ZDNet - Mac community must wake up to security")</div>

Quote:

Apple Macintosh users believe they are immune from security problems and need to wake up to the potential of attack -- before they are rudely awoken by a destructive piece of malware.

At the University of Otago in New Zealand, where around 40 percent of the computers are Apple Macintosh systems, IT security manager Mark Borrie has been educating his OS X users in security best-practices. He said many of those users believed they were immune to security problems -- a trap many Mac fans seemed to have fallen into.

"On the security side of things I reckon the Mac community has yet to wake up to security. They think they are immune and typically have this idea that they can do whatever they want on their Macintosh and run what they like," said Borrie.

"If I can get our Mac users up to speed and say 'you are not immune' -- so when [the malware] hits, hopefully we will be pretty safe," he said.

The University of Otago's Apple desktops are all loaded with antivirus protection just in case of an outbreak.

"We want to be ready for the first big Macintosh virus -- because it will come. Some day, somebody will say 'I am going to create a headline and write a virus for Mac'," said Borrie.[/b]

qbee42 · 10-02-2006, 12:14 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Oct 2 2006, 11:57 AM) [snapback]326886[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Problem with MAC, IMO is, they try and make it too idiot-proof.
[/b]

There's an old adage that goes: "Make something idiot proof, and only an idiot will want to use it." That's not completely true, but there is some truth to it.

The older MAC OSs were poor. They had a nice GUI, but poor multitasking and networking that crashed a lot. Now that they have moved to UNIX, the OS is robust, so the main limitation now becomes one of application software. The move to Intel processors provides a good way around that, but then you are running Windows part of the time, with all of its associated problems. The hardware also tends to be more expensive due to its proprietary nature.

Tom

wan · 10-02-2006, 01:06 PM

Linux market share is growing and as long as it grows (no matter how slowly) it is a good thing. Large corporation like Microsoft and Apple will have to inovate a lot more in order to justify the price. Many just need email, browser, and word processing. At some point you simply don't pay that much just to email and write a letter.

daniel · 10-03-2006, 12:24 AM

Ogg amd Grog were cavemen. Ogg lived in a cave at ground level. Grog lived in a cave 25 feet up a sheer cliff that he reached by a narrow path and a scramble. Ogg had to worry constantly about saber-tooth tigers and bears and hyenas. He kept them at bay by keeping a fire burning at the entrance to his cave all night long. He spend 3/4 of his daylight hours fetching wood for the fire, and he had to get up every 2 hours during the night to feed the fire. There were cockroaches as well, those prehistoric ones two feet long, but they only ate rotten plant material, so, although they smelled bad, they were not dangerous and he tolerated them. Ogg told Grog that life at ground level was better because he could come and go easily, any time there was an opportunity to whack a cave woman over the head and drag her home, though Grog noticed from his vantage point that the women always ended up kicking Ogg in the belly and running away. Ogg told Grog that he should not be so smug, because his cave was not 100% safe, but Grog replied he knew it was not 100% safe, but he was still happy to be safer than Ogg, for all Ogg's fires, plus he didn't have to spend 3/4 of his daylight hours gathering firewood, and he could sleep through the night, cozy under his bearskin blanket, and not have to get up constantly to feed a fire. His own fire could be smaller, easier to keep burning, to fend off the lesser threats of his inherently safer location. And while Ogg chased after the prettiest cave women, who always got away from him anyway, Grog spent his nights with his plain but perfectly satisfactory woman.

The Mac OS is not 100% safe, but it does not require us to devote 3/4 of our computer resources to security software. Running Windows is like living at ground level, surrounded by growling predators. The Mac moves you out of reach of most of the predators, and makes you more of a bother than it's worth for the rest to make a concerted effort to go after you. You still have to observe safe practices. But you don't have to live your life in constant worry. There are more programs available for Windows, but they're so full of holes they're likely to damage you in the end.

Ogg was finally killed by a hyena while he was rolling on the ground in pain after a cave woman he was trying to hit over the head kicked him in the private parts. A sufficiently deternimed hyena might have been able to get to Grog's cave, but why bother? It would have been a terrible lot of work to get through the natural defenses of the location, and most of the cavemen lived at ground level, just because "everyone else" did, so there was plenty of food without trying to get at Grog.

zapranoth · 10-03-2006, 02:49 AM

Just installed Windows on our iMac today. It runs great -- runs all of the iMac's bells and whistles (bluetooth, wireless networking, etc) just like it should.

And the best part? I can use Windows for the 3 or 4 things I use it for, and the rest of the time it's off!
It only gets a 32 gig partition -- it physically cannot bloat itself beyond that boundary.
If it pisses me off, I'll delete and reinstall. (and if you didn't know, it boots in one OS or the other -- not both at the same time.)

But for day to day work I use the better OS. That's OS X. If you wanna believe Windows is "better," well, labor under that delusion and more power to ya. Because you're going to need it.

10-02-2006, 10:36 AM	#1
daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 9,147 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #6 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I appologize for posting my Mac = Unix = Nice quip in the Vista RC1 thread. Squid says that bragging about using a Mac is like bragging about being crippled. I say it's like gloating about living in a neutral city when a gang-war between an evil capitalist and the mafia is destroying everyplace else. Sure, I've had to search out software that would do what I wanted. But at least my OS is not blinking at me every minute and a half, and I don't have "security" software hogging all my resources and spinning my HD constantly. __________________ Daniel ---------------------- Primary car: Zap Xebra SD: 100% electric car. 1.9 cents per mile, using electrons generated from water power. (The Prius is my gas guzzler, used when I have to travel farther than 35 miles in a day.) "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." -- Emma Goldman "Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war." -- Otto von Bismarck

10-02-2006, 11:24 AM	#3
Proco Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Beautiful NJ Shore Posts: 1,942 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #5 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 6	First, let me admit that I know nothing about Macs. I've done software development in Windows & UNIX environments, though. I admit the main reason I use Windows is because it's ubiquitous. When my PC fried a year ago, I got another Windows machine because I didn't want to spend extra bucks for Mac versions of my existing software. The biggest problem I have with MS is how bloated their software is. Rather than give us a clean, relatively bug-free software release, they try to shove in as many features as possible. When you do that, you're going to introduce more bugs than you can reasonably catch. I've always thought, for the home computer market, Mac was a superior product. Unfortunately, they shot themselves in the foot by keeping their technology proprietary. If they had allowed clones to be made in the 80's, we could have had "Mac-compatible" machines with real GUI rather than "PC-compatible" ones with nothing but MS-DOS 2.2 and an added Hercules video card. And who knows which way technological innovation would have gone. I really like the Linux box I have at work, but it's not user-friendly enough for the basic home market. Heck, I had to have a co-worker recompile my kernel so my network card would work. That's not something the average person can do. For techies, though, I think it's the best option. Especially when you throw open source into the mix. __________________ "I don't believe in 'My country right or wrong'. My country wrong needs my help." -- Peter Tork New Jersey Prius Club Forum: http://priuschat.com/NJ-New-Jersey-f70.html

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10-02-2006, 10:38 AM	#2
Alric Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,048 My Car: 2007 Prius Package: #8 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	If you buy a Mac you can run Mac and Windows (or anything else). Virtual or Native. No reason for choosing either.. Cheers.

10-02-2006, 11:38 AM	#4
EricGo Three cats, one Prius, and assorted humans Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM (SouthWest US) Posts: 1,810 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I had notions last year of changing my home over to Linux from Macintosh (four people, 4 -6 computers) but backed off when I was the only one interested (read: would not kill me if I tried). MS crud is not an option, so I imagine we'll stay Mac so long as it is a viable platform, and move to an open source OS eventually.

10-02-2006, 11:57 AM	#5
Mystery Squid Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Quick and dirty... All kidding aside (there goes the fun part... ), it really should pivot around what your primary usage is. Each perform spectacularly within various respects, the question is, what's yours? I've ran XP since the day it was released, and have had few problems over the years. As a matter of fact, I've never had it crash a-la '98 style blue screen... I'm running a bunch of multi-media applications, it's primarily a gaming machine. I'm not into audio and video manipulation, and I believe MAC might be superior in that respect. I did, however, notice MAC is very limited in terms of configuring, you seem to have limited options whenever some issue comes up. Problem with MAC, IMO is, they try and make it too idiot-proof. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it seems like whenever problems arise with MAC/its software thereof, I feel far more limited in trying to resolve the problem, seems like I don't have a lot of room to operate, so to speak... Sort of the same thing with Ipods. There are plenty of better devices out there ( IMHO of course), but because it looks nice, it sells.

10-02-2006, 01:06 PM	#8
wan Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 25 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Linux market share is growing and as long as it grows (no matter how slowly) it is a good thing. Large corporation like Microsoft and Apple will have to inovate a lot more in order to justify the price. Many just need email, browser, and word processing. At some point you simply don't pay that much just to email and write a letter.

10-03-2006, 12:24 AM	#9
daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 9,147 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #6 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Ogg amd Grog were cavemen. Ogg lived in a cave at ground level. Grog lived in a cave 25 feet up a sheer cliff that he reached by a narrow path and a scramble. Ogg had to worry constantly about saber-tooth tigers and bears and hyenas. He kept them at bay by keeping a fire burning at the entrance to his cave all night long. He spend 3/4 of his daylight hours fetching wood for the fire, and he had to get up every 2 hours during the night to feed the fire. There were cockroaches as well, those prehistoric ones two feet long, but they only ate rotten plant material, so, although they smelled bad, they were not dangerous and he tolerated them. Ogg told Grog that life at ground level was better because he could come and go easily, any time there was an opportunity to whack a cave woman over the head and drag her home, though Grog noticed from his vantage point that the women always ended up kicking Ogg in the belly and running away. Ogg told Grog that he should not be so smug, because his cave was not 100% safe, but Grog replied he knew it was not 100% safe, but he was still happy to be safer than Ogg, for all Ogg's fires, plus he didn't have to spend 3/4 of his daylight hours gathering firewood, and he could sleep through the night, cozy under his bearskin blanket, and not have to get up constantly to feed a fire. His own fire could be smaller, easier to keep burning, to fend off the lesser threats of his inherently safer location. And while Ogg chased after the prettiest cave women, who always got away from him anyway, Grog spent his nights with his plain but perfectly satisfactory woman. The Mac OS is not 100% safe, but it does not require us to devote 3/4 of our computer resources to security software. Running Windows is like living at ground level, surrounded by growling predators. The Mac moves you out of reach of most of the predators, and makes you more of a bother than it's worth for the rest to make a concerted effort to go after you. You still have to observe safe practices. But you don't have to live your life in constant worry. There are more programs available for Windows, but they're so full of holes they're likely to damage you in the end. Ogg was finally killed by a hyena while he was rolling on the ground in pain after a cave woman he was trying to hit over the head kicked him in the private parts. A sufficiently deternimed hyena might have been able to get to Grog's cave, but why bother? It would have been a terrible lot of work to get through the natural defenses of the location, and most of the cavemen lived at ground level, just because "everyone else" did, so there was plenty of food without trying to get at Grog.

10-03-2006, 02:49 AM	#10
zapranoth Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 252 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 1	Just installed Windows on our iMac today. It runs great -- runs all of the iMac's bells and whistles (bluetooth, wireless networking, etc) just like it should. And the best part? I can use Windows for the 3 or 4 things I use it for, and the rest of the time it's off! It only gets a 32 gig partition -- it physically cannot bloat itself beyond that boundary. If it pisses me off, I'll delete and reinstall. (and if you didn't know, it boots in one OS or the other -- not both at the same time.) But for day to day work I use the better OS. That's OS X. If you wanna believe Windows is "better," well, labor under that delusion and more power to ya. Because you're going to need it.