Electric - Human Hybrid Bicycles

[daniel]

Obviously, this kind of thing will be good for some people. But during the very few years that I was bicycling, I found the solution to hills was an 18-speed gearset. Half-step plus granny was the configuration I had, and it worked very well. I eventually over-did it and developed a persistent tendinitus and had to quit bicycling. I'm the only person I know who can jog but not bicycle. But with low enough gears you can go up anything.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 16 2006, 04:18 AM) [snapback]333348[/snapback]</div>

My point is that simply getting a lighter bike with less rolling resistance is probably a better idea than adding the weight of a motor.[/b]

In general, for the fit/uninjured population, I agree solidly!

I've been on some pedal-assist jobbies before. One prototype by Honda a few years back. It had NO "let me stop pedaling" option and was a true "pedal assist" machine. The harder you pushed on the pedal, the more assist it would give. Crusing on the flat would use no battery. The problem, as many have stated, is that it was not a proper bike to enjoy when not using the power assist. Great novelty, and good for the folks who could not otherwise get out and ride... but sucks for bike riders. I'd rather spend $3k on a 16-pound street bike, than $1k on a semi-electric, heavy bicycle.

My 02.

[daniel]

Many years ago, when I was a ham radio operator, a ham friend of mine bought a Radio Shack Color Computer. It came with 8 K of RAM, and my friend, who was an electronics wiz, and whose day job was repairing microwave repeaters for AT&T, did a home-brew conversion to upgrade it to 16K, which he insisted was more memory than anyone could ever possibly make use of in a computer. The thing used an ordinary TV set for a monitor and an audio cassette deck for non-volatile memory.

But my friend had a need to prove that the computer was not merely a toy, so he used it to balance his checkbook. And he told everyone that the computer was really useful because he could balance his checkbook with it.

Every time he wrote a check, he would boot up the computer, load the program and data from the tape deck, type in his latest check, save the data to the tape deck, and feel like he was demonstrating the usefulness of the contraption.

I balanced my checkbook in a fraction of the time, by writing the amounts in the little booklet, and doing the math every month.

While I admit that for some folks the electric bike is probably a useful gizmo, I can't help but think that it's a lot like my friend and his souped-up Color Computer: the machine made an easy task difficult.

WARNING: DIGRESSION:
<div align="right">BTW, at the time I was fond of saying that I would not buy a computer unless they came out with one that could do something more useful than balance a checkbook, and do whatever it was faster or more easily than I could do it by hand. Not long after, that computer appeared: the Kaypro 2X, mainly designed as a word processor. Where the Color Computer could not display a normal letter-width line of type on the screen at one time, the Kaypro had a crisp, clear display that made writing letters fast and easy. Even after the IBM PC appeared, the Kaypro was a better machine for word processing, and it wasn't until the introduction of the Hercules graphics card that a PC could do decent word processing.</div>

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 28 2006, 07:58 PM) [snapback]340161[/snapback]</div>

WARNING: DIGRESSION:[/color]
<div align="right">BTW, at the time I was fond of saying that I would not buy a computer unless they came out with one that could do something more useful than balance a checkbook, and do whatever it was faster or more easily than I could do it by hand. Not long after, that computer appeared: the Kaypro 2X, mainly designed as a word processor. Where the Color Computer could not display a normal letter-width line of type on the screen at one time, the Kaypro had a crisp, clear display that made writing letters fast and easy. Even after the IBM PC appeared, the Kaypro was a better machine for word processing, and it wasn't until the introduction of the Hercules graphics card that a PC could do decent word processing.

[/b][/quote]
I love a good digression... and just got the oddest sensation while reading this. I had an eerily similar situation. It was my dad in my case though, who bought the first micro computer, and used it specifically to balance the checkbook. He also spent several days writing a program to that would show a clock on the screen. My fist computer was a Kaypro2 (CPM) with 8" floppies and no HD, of course.

And one thing about this great digression is to look at where computers are now. And wonder where they would be if nobody did buy those first ones that sucked? I don't know if the same can be said of power-assisted bicycles, but I can certainly say it about hybrids and electric cars! I can't tell you how many times I've heard that so-and-so will buy an EV just as soon as they have 500 miles of range and cost less than a Yugo. If we all wait for that, it simply cannot happen.

I never had a point here, so I won't pretend like I did. Carry on.

[jdenenberg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Oct 15 2006, 11:59 AM) [snapback]332994[/snapback]</div>

This topic comes up periodically in PriusChat, but I'd like to hear everybody's most recent experiences and gossip.

Most importantly, I am looking for a model that augments human effort, and not isolated dual powertrains that discourages pedalling.
[/b]

My son built his own and documented it in a detailled report (long). You can read it at:

http://doctord.dyndns.org:8000/Scott/Hybri...ller_report.htm

It will tell you a lot about electric assist bikes and their effectiveness.

JeffD

[daniel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Oct 28 2006, 08:10 PM) [snapback]340165[/snapback]</div>

And one thing about this great digression is to look at where computers are now. And wonder where they would be if nobody did buy those first ones that sucked?
[/b]

I don't think the Color Computer advanced the market for computers any. It was a toy, pure and simple. It could not do any of the tasks we want computers to do now. The Kaypro and its ilk were the ones that first provided real usefulness in the home, and then the fortuitous symbiosis of the Apple and Lotus 123. And the Kaypro certainly did not suck. It was a beautiful and sturdy machine that did a useful job and did it well.

Similarly, I don't think the golf-cart-style electric cars that old folks drive around retirement communities, but which cannot go on public streets, advance the cause of electric cars. It took real cars to do that, like the EV-1 and the RAV4EV. And now the little independent companies like AC Propulsion, Tesla Motors, and Commuter Cars, getting into the act, but at scales so small that only the very rich can afford them.

I predict that electric-assist bicycles will never be more than a novelty because they do not serve an especially useful purpose. Now, when a real motorcycle, or even a road-worthy motor scooter (Vespa-style) goes electric, that will be a useful machine.

Consider: you can get gas-powered motor-assist bicycles, but you almost never see them, because they don't fill a real need. Too weak to be safe on the road, not powerful enough to go entirely under their own power, but too heavy to ride without using their motor. You either want a bike you can ride under your own power, or you want a motor bike that can go entirely under its own power. Power-assist is too small a niche. And I believe that the introduction of electric to replace gas, in a machine that has virtually no market, won't change much.

Still, to those who find such a machine appealing, I wish you the best of luck finding the one that is right for you. I'd advise trying it out before buying it, though.