I don't understand...

[livelychick]

Hi all--
I know some of you have served in the military, so I have a real question for you, or for anyone else who knows the answer; I'm not being cynical or mean-spirited or trying to raise ire or trolling or anything. It's a real, honest-to-God question.

On reports about the military, why do they say things like "There have been 30,000 soldier and Marine casualties in Iraq" or the like? Isn't a Marine a soldier? Why is there a differentiation? I guess I've always thought of "soldiers" as anyone serving in the military.

Looking for enlightenment here!

Thanks in advance...

[efusco]

I don't think it's unreasonable to use the term 'soldier' when talking about all our men in the military in general. But marines are a special lot. They take a lot of pride in being called marines and distinguishing themselves from soldiers (more specific to the army). Just like an airman is more specific for the airforce and a sailor the navy.

soldier = army
marine = marines
airman = Air force
sailor = navy

[Ken Cooper]

Marines are a branch of the Navy. Historically they are the ones that attack from ship to boat to beach.

A soldier traditionally is a member of the army, not affiliated with any other service. When one thinks of tanks and wheeled heavy artillary for instance, the army is what comes to mind. Typically they'll march in to war from some land based reference point.

[eagle33199]

From Wikipedia:

A marine corps (from French "corps de marine") is a branch of a nation's armed forces incorporating Marines, intended to be capable of mounting amphibious assaults using infantry, armour, aircraft, and watercraft. The role of a Marine Corps can differ between nations. Many countries, including Spain, Germany, France and Russia describe these combatant groups as "naval infantry."

In modern warfare, Marines are usually elite, highly mobile troops, and are used in situations that do not always involve naval elements. For example, the United States Marine Corps, the largest in the world, is often used as a spearhead for major military offensives or as a stopgap when an emergency military situation breaks out, performing critical military operations until more permanent forces arrive. Historically, Marines were part of the navy and served onboard warships. They assisted the crew in battles, boarded enemy ships, conducted small coastal raids, and protected the officers from mutiny by the crew. Eventually they have become the primary landing force. The word "Marine" means Navy in many European languages such as French, German and Dutch.[/b]

The United States Marine Corps (USMC) is a branch of the U.S. military responsible for providing power projection from the sea,[1] utilizing the mobility of the U.S. Navy to rapidly deliver combined-arms task forces to global crises. Alongside the U.S. Navy, the Marine Corps operates under the United States Department of the Navy.

Originally organized as the Continental Marines in 1775 as naval infantry, the Marine Corps would evolve its mission with changing military doctrine and American foreign policy. Owing to the availability of Marines at sea, the Marine Corps has served in every American armed conflict going back to the Revolutionary War. It attained prominence in the 20th century when its theories and practice of amphibious warfare proved prescient, and ultimately formed a cornerstone of the Pacific campaign of World War II.[2] By the early 20th century, the Marine Corps would become the dominant theorist and practitioner of amphibious warfare. Its ability to rapidly respond to regional crises has made and continues to make it an important body in the implementation and execution of American foreign policy.[3]

The Marine Corps, with 180,000 active duty and 40,000 reserve Marines as of 2005, is the smallest of the United States' armed forces in the Department of Defense (the United States Coast Guard, about one fifth the size of the Marine Corps, is under the Department of Homeland Security). The Corps is nonetheless larger than the entire armed forces of many significant military powers; for example, it is larger than the Israeli Defense Forces.[4][5][/b]

So essentially they were initially developed as a sort of bridge between the army and the navy - armed forces deployed amphibiously. They had some pretty strict training, though, and over time have pretty much developed into a unit that is known as being elite and taking on the toughest assignments.

[livelychick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Nov 8 2006, 12:07 PM) [snapback]345534[/snapback]</div>

I don't think it's unreasonable to use the term 'soldier' when talking about all our men in the military in general. But marines are a special lot. They take a lot of pride in being called marines and distinguishing themselves from soldiers (more specific to the army). Just like an airman is more specific for the airforce and a sailor the navy.

soldier = army
marine = marines
airman = Air force
sailor = navy
[/b]

I knew the differences in what they call each other within the Armed Services. However,there are airmen that have been wounded in Iraq, and there is no differentiation of them when they're mentioned on the news like the Marines are.

I have Marines in my family, have dated a few, too, but found it odd that they're differentiated from other soldiers.

[Alnilam]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Nov 8 2006, 09:16 AM) [snapback]345551[/snapback]</div>

I knew the differences in what they call each other within the Armed Services. However,there are airmen that have been wounded in Iraq, and there is no differentiation of them when they're mentioned on the news like the Marines are.

I have Marines in my family, have dated a few, too, but found it odd that they're differentiated from other soldiers.
[/b]

Airman is a little confused. Anybody who flies is an airman, so we have them in each of the services. There are Marine airmen (small "a.") "Airman" (big "A") is also a title of rank for junior Air Force enlisted personnel, as in Airman Second Class. If they are mentioned on the news, they should be called Airmen instead of soldiers, who are 100% Army. Sailors are in the Navy.

Marines are members of that service only. You'll get into a lot of bar-fights if you mix these up, especially with Marines who are "The Proud, the Few." You can easily tell a Marine (but not much!)

Alnilam
ex-Air Force Airman and airman
ex-Navy airman
Today: full-of-hot-air man

[naterprius]

A soldier is a guy who runs along the ground with a gun, or rides around in a tank or a humvee.

A marine is a guy who kills people. What do they do when they aren't killing people? Practice killing people.

Not my words, but words of a good friend, a huge guy named Fuzzy who was in Desert Storm. Normally, that's his answer to "So, what did you do in the Marines?" A: "Kill People."

My reply: "So, did you learn any skills that you can apply to the real world?" His answer, was no, if he had to do it over again, he would have joined the Air Force and learned to fly planes; then at least he would have a useful skill when he got out.

He was an apprentice Toyota Technician with me in Michigan, a good guy, someone you just have to like.

Nate

[EricGo]

Livelychick --

I'm not so sure your original contention is correct, that all soldiers are lumped together except the marines. For instance, if the american killed is a national guardsman, that is reported (at least in the news I read).

To the extent that Marines are singled out, though, I'd guess it either reflects the journalist's inclusion of the detail because the US populace knows the word, or because they have a separate reporting apparatus within the military.

Most militaries have land ("army"), sea ("navy"), and air ("Air Force") forces, and each one has a separate beauracracy and chain of command. Intelligence in some countries is a fourth. I'm not positive, but the US Marines may be an fourth force, not under one of the first three.

[livelychick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 8 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]345822[/snapback]</div>

Livelychick --

I'm not so sure your original contention is correct, that all soldiers are lumped together except the marines. For instance, if the american killed is a national guardsman, that is reported (at least in the news I read).

To the extent that Marines are singled out, though, I'd guess it either reflects the journalist's inclusion of the detail because the US populace knows the word, or because they have a separate reporting apparatus within the military.

[/b]

When one individual dies, they say what branch they were in. When they're referring to casualties/deaths as a total sum, they (being the TV reporters and pundits: Russert, Matthews, Lauer, Blitzer, Cooper, Hume, et al.) say "soldiers and Marines." I've heard it several times; that's why I was curious.

I'm not sure about print; this is just on news channels/shows.

[tripp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 8 2006, 02:52 PM) [snapback]345822[/snapback]</div>

Livelychick --

I'm not so sure your original contention is correct, that all soldiers are lumped together except the marines. For instance, if the american killed is a national guardsman, that is reported (at least in the news I read).

To the extent that Marines are singled out, though, I'd guess it either reflects the journalist's inclusion of the detail because the US populace knows the word, or because they have a separate reporting apparatus within the military.

Most militaries have land ("army"), sea ("navy"), and air ("Air Force") forces, and each one has a separate beauracracy and chain of command. Intelligence in some countries is a fourth. I'm not positive, but the US Marines may be an fourth force, not under one of the first three.
[/b]

The National Guard is a component of the US Army and thus individuals in the NG are soldiers. The Guard is unique amongst the reserve components because they are also state militia and can be called up by a Governor to do various things. They can participate in law enforcement (posse comatotus, I'm sure I spelled that wrong) unlike the active and other reserve components.

The Marines are part of the Department of the Navy along with... The Navy. I think that they're considered a seperate branch (they certainly think so) but there's so Secretary of the Marines, just a Secretary of the Navy who oversees both entities.

The singling out of this or that is most likely the result of journalist ignorance more than anything else.