"Why Americans are Skeptical of Their Role in Global Warming" (aka Global Climate Disruption)

[ufourya]

[quote=Fibb222;852275]

Originally Posted by ufourya

The government controlling every aspect of our lives.?.. what a joke. You clearly bought the propaganda big time.

Actually you're right about the HRC being a little too overzealous at times. That thing needs to be reigned in but it 99% of Canadians never even heard of it so it's not that big a deal.

99% of Canadians (and Americans as well) never hear a lot of stuff. That might explain why they actually think socialism and centralized, top down government are superior to capitalism and individual freedom, when they are demonstrably not.

[ufourya]

My patriotism (so-called jingoism) is based on careful observation. My family came to the U.S. from elsewhere in the aftermath of World War II. People with some experience of unpleasantness in other places seem to more easily recognize the wonderful things around them than those who grow up in their midst. I have also travelled widely and recognized wonderful things about many countries.

I am a patriot. I hate to see a great thing ruined, or placed in jeopardy. Folks who cannot see the unbelievable advantages to living in this country, do so out of ignorance.

I could just as easily say YOUR pride in country prevents you from seeing the superiority of mine.

"Early in my career...I had to choose between an honest arrogance and a hypercritical humility... I deliberately chose an honest arrogance, and I've never been sorry."
— Frank Lloyd Wright

[ufourya]

There is a lot of fuzzy thinking in the world. It seems to even extend to our own newly elected leader who thinks he needs to apologize to the rest of the world for the U.S.'s 'arrogance'.

We have a lot to be proud of. You can point to this or that category where another nation bests the U.S., but on the whole it's hard to ignore our greatness.

We helped pull Europe out of two World Wars with our blood and treasure. We caused the Soviet Union to crumble via superior ideas, technology and spirit (Thank you, President Reagan) while the rest of the world was convinced the best it could do was co-exist with an evil and rapacious ideology.

Our military provides safety for much of the world. Europe has been able to pour money not needed for defense into its social(ist) programs which many believe superior to our own. The programs are doomed to failure because the native populations of many European nations are in decline and the taxes on the remainder, even in their eventual draconian excesses, will not support them.

Some point to our life expectancy being lower while ignoring that many of our youth have given their lives defending freedom while the youth of other countries, in their misplaced idealism and ignorance of evil, pretend that peace results from wishing for it.

Perhaps if we approach this from another angle, it might sink in. There are nations which make slaves of their populations. They squeeze the very humanity, the spirit, right out of them and only the rulers prosper.

By your assertions that no nation can be considered greater than another, you tacitly suggest that North Korea is on equal footing with Canada. North Koreans eating tree bark to stay alive are just as proud of their country as Canadians are of theirs. All the Sudanese are just as patriotic and delighted as the Dutch.

And I'm accused of ignorance, arrogance and misplaced pride. If you need to call me a jingoist, I accept the honor. I'll refer to myself as a grateful patriot. I'm grateful there was a United States of America to accept my immigrant family and offer it unlimited opportunity. I'll defend this great country against all comers and I'll sing its praises.

[PriusSport]

I believe the root of the problem is the government. Bush and his ilk were in denial about the existence of Global Warming--and still are, so we lost some precious years even recognizing the problem--behind everybody else.

What Obama has to do is to raise its level of importance--by making it a National Security issue--not just an environmental issue. Indeed, it is a Global Security issue--more important than Iraq, the Taliban and Bin Laden. But a longer range issue, which perhaps is why it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

[ufourya]

Originally Posted by PriusSport

I believe the root of the problem is the government. Bush and his ilk were in denial about the existence of Global Warming--and still are, so we lost some precious years even recognizing the problem--behind everybody else.

What Obama has to do is to raise its level of importance--by making it a National Security issue--not just an environmental issue. Indeed, it is a Global Security issue--more important than Iraq, the Taliban and Bin Laden. But a longer range issue, which perhaps is why it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Oh, Obama will raise stuff alright - taxes on energy.

A national security issue? Indeed, as we waste trillions on useless energy policies (and line the pockets of those invested) while we ignore real, actual, live threats.

The Climate-Industrial Complex - WSJ.com

..."The partnership among self-interested businesses, grandstanding politicians and alarmist campaigners truly is an unholy alliance. The climate-industrial complex does not promote discussion on how to overcome this challenge in a way that will be best for everybody. We should not be surprised or impressed that those who stand to make a profit are among the loudest calling for politicians to act. Spending a fortune on global carbon regulations will benefit a few, but dearly cost everybody else."

[Fibb222]

Originally Posted by ufourya

Oh, Obama will raise stuff alright - taxes on energy.

A national security issue? Indeed, as we waste trillions on useless energy policies (and line the pockets of those invested) while we ignore real, actual, live threats.

The Climate-Industrial Complex - WSJ.com

The economics of electric vehicles (cheaper and more reliable), along with lessening reliance on imported oil (improved trade imbalance, predictable energy costs) will help consumers and the economy tremendously.

Smart grids, renewable power (already cheaper than coal), and the inability of companies to export the green infrastructure installation jobs means improved prosperity too.

It's the fat-cat polluters that want the status quo that are crying foul. Feeling threatened, they no doubt will continue a propaganda campaign to discredit their opponents in the market place.

Talk about your unholy alliances, subsidies to the fossil fuel industry have been going on for decades. That is the true crime worth mentioning. How in a modern world could it be ok to allow free dumping of pollutants into the air we breath? It is time to internalize the costs of pollution, and because of the costs of AGW CO2 as well.

Direct subsidies to greener businesses should only exist until the coal and oil industry is willing to give up theirs. But carbon taxes/cap and trade needs to exist and be ramped up until the economy is de-carbonized, because we need climate stability to continue to have economic properity and security.

The auther of the article is in full agreement that AGW exists, by the way, so ufourya you should watch who you quote. But Lomborg is in the minority in his views that it AGW is not a big crisis. Good for him - he's found his niche and is able to make money telling people not to worry about global warming. I think his message only plays to the uniformed fence sitters or the status quo seekers that read the WSJ.

Forward thinking capitalists have and will have enormous opportunities to make piles of money in the new green economy and certainly others are going to lose their hold on the nation's teet. Capitalism is a constructive and destructive enterprise.

But remember, maintaining the status quo does nothing to create new wealth for the masses. New jobs, industries and needed government policies do that.

[Paul R. Haller]

Hmm,, lets see.... no, wait,,,,Maybe if we wait long enough it will go away. I can't speak for others, but I can tell you what I have done to reduce my carbon footprint or limit my causing global warming. I have replaced both of my furnaces with a 98% efficient condensing style furnaces. I have replaced all my windows to an ultra low e glass and triple pane construction. I now have tankless hot water heaters and I drive 2 Priuses.(or is that pri-i)? I buy only recycled paper products and I try to buy only cotton clothes. I have a hemp wallet and I try to buy only natural with no added chemicals food and soaps. I recycle my grey water and have a modest solar array on my house. I continue to look for more sustainable ways to live.

I put my $ where my mouth is and I do not allow myself to accept the morals forced down my throat by the likes of Bush and Cheney. Their moral compass is that of a typical bible thumper. Fear God (and terrorists) and buy a V8. Force unwanted babies and opt out of the Kyoto treaty. They were elected twice by like minded individuals who fear God more then they fear global warming. God wil not come to your rescue when you pray for cooler climates because of reading the bible instead of looking at what YOU do and how it affects the world we live in. Torture people we distrust, ignore the bill of rights, and have not one idea how to solve problems, their only idea is how to make you afraid of them. Live in fear and be a follower, after all, in the absense of leadership people will follow who ever steps up to the mic.
Sadly Americans have gotten fat and lethargic and would rather watch TV then write their congressperson reminding them to keep in check those home grown terrorists like AIG, Halliburton, Bell helicopter, insurance companies that get fat on your ill health, Bush and Cheney has disreguarded our fundimental ideals and thrown out our good name for waterboarding and torture. It will take a very long time to recover from these heartless actions. As long as Americans vote in an oil man in the white house and then wonder why the price of oil has climbed to record highs, we need a healthy dose of introspection.

Can you live greener? Do you need to be told that we do not live a sustainable life style? Are we at the end of the oil era? Is America bankrupt? Is it right that our children die because their parents are not working allowing insurance benefits? Do we allow torture? If you answer yes to any of these questions, look in the mirror... Vote, write your representative, and then go DO something small like replace all light bulbs with compact flourescent lamps. It generates jobs and turns down the world thermistat. You can make a difference by excercising those rights we hold dear.
-Paul R. Haller-