GM's master plan to be CAFE compliant ...

EricGo · 07-13-2007, 11:28 AM

Yep. When you stop laughing, here is the link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/environment...R34325820070713

By their estimates, the cars will have about a $4500 premium over gasoline cars for the 'clean' 2010 variety,
while Toyota anticipates ~ $2000 premium for hybrids;
And gets about 50% of a hybrid's city mpg;
And stinks;
And will be the dirtiest car allowed on the road, non CO2 pollutant wise.

Darwood · 07-13-2007, 11:40 AM

I don't find anything wrong with them producing deisels.
The real answer to CAFE standards is the Volt. Now if by 2012, they are producing deisels and have no Volt to sell, it will be the last straw.

john1701a · 07-13-2007, 12:59 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Jul 13 2007, 10:40 AM) [snapback]478128[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I don't find anything wrong with them producing deisels.[/b]

Just wait until people discover they only meet the "Tier2-Bin5" emission level... which is dirtier than most gas vehicles. Then when the daily commute real-world data comes in for those driving automatic diesels, it's over. The benefit "full" hybrids will become obvious at that point over non-hybrid diesel.

Darwood · 07-13-2007, 01:05 PM

I think that a good small deisel would make a much better genset for a Volt type vehicle. For most commuters it would never even come on. If needed, it could run at a constant RPM, where the efficiency is highest and the pollution is lowest. (Hopefully biodeisel capable).

**Tideland Prius** · 07-13-2007, 03:16 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jul 13 2007, 09:59 AM) [snapback]478189[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Just wait until people discover they only meet the "Tier2-Bin5" emission level... which is dirtier than most gas vehicles. Then when the daily commute real-world data comes in for those driving automatic diesels, it's over. The benefit "full" hybrids will become obvious at that point over non-hybrid diesel.
[/b]

Actually T2B5 is ULEV so it's equivalent to regular cars like the Camry, Accord, Corolla etc.. basically most 4 and 6 cylinder models (the LS460 is one of the rare V8 cars with ULEV rating)

Darwood · 07-13-2007, 03:18 PM

It's a bit disengenious to say that GM's "master plan" for CAFE compliance is the deisel.

Here's the Lutz quote "do not assume that the deisel engine is the panacea and its going to get everybody to a fleet of 36 MPGs."

That being said, they seem to be saying people want deisels, so we will reluctantly build some.

john1701a · 07-13-2007, 04:58 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jul 13 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]478279[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Actually T2B5 is ULEV[/b]

Nope! See... http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/labeling/0215.../pres021507.pdf

ULEV = 0.125

Bin5 = 0.160

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07-13-2007, 11:28 AM	#1
EricGo Three cats, one Prius, and assorted humans Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM (SouthWest US) Posts: 1,810 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Yep. When you stop laughing, here is the link: http://www.reuters.com/article/environment...R34325820070713 By their estimates, the cars will have about a $4500 premium over gasoline cars for the 'clean' 2010 variety, while Toyota anticipates ~ $2000 premium for hybrids; And gets about 50% of a hybrid's city mpg; And stinks; And will be the dirtiest car allowed on the road, non CO2 pollutant wise.

07-13-2007, 11:40 AM	#2
Darwood Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,135 My Car: 2008 Prius Model: N/A Package: #2 Thanks: 155 Thanked 129 Times in 94 Posts Friends: 15	I don't find anything wrong with them producing deisels. The real answer to CAFE standards is the Volt. Now if by 2012, they are producing deisels and have no Volt to sell, it will be the last straw.

07-13-2007, 01:05 PM	#4
Darwood Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,135 My Car: 2008 Prius Model: N/A Package: #2 Thanks: 155 Thanked 129 Times in 94 Posts Friends: 15	I think that a good small deisel would make a much better genset for a Volt type vehicle. For most commuters it would never even come on. If needed, it could run at a constant RPM, where the efficiency is highest and the pollution is lowest. (Hopefully biodeisel capable).

07-13-2007, 03:18 PM	#6
Darwood Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,135 My Car: 2008 Prius Model: N/A Package: #2 Thanks: 155 Thanked 129 Times in 94 Posts Friends: 15	It's a bit disengenious to say that GM's "master plan" for CAFE compliance is the deisel. Here's the Lutz quote "do not assume that the deisel engine is the panacea and its going to get everybody to a fleet of 36 MPGs." That being said, they seem to be saying people want deisels, so we will reluctantly build some.