Back door draft?

[bestmapman]

My business partner's niece is engaged to be married on Nov 2. Her husband to be is a ex Marine. Yes I said ex Marine not former Marine. About a month ago, the marine reserve called and asked him if he wanted to come back on active duty. They offered him a $30,000.00 reenlistment bonus to come back on active duty. He served four years on active duty, including two tours in iraq for one year each for a total of two years in iraq. When he first signed up he volunteered. He was patriotic 19 year old and thought he was doing the right thing. He served honorably and received an honorable discharge. He said no, I do not want to go back into the Marines.

His service was rough. He has permanent hearing loss in one ear and has suffered greatly with the effects of combat, reoccurring nightmares and other problems. Probably not that uncommon, but traumatic nonetheless. He stuck it out and finished his tour of duty. Served his country honorably.

A week ago the reserve called and said he had to come back on active duty anyway. Since he didn't take the $30,000.00 bonus when offered he now wasn't eligible for it, and couldn't get it. They sent him airline tickets yesterday to report on Sep. 30th.

The reason he turned down the $30,000.00 is that he says he can't take combat again. He said that he will not come back this time. He said he will either be killed or he will kill himself to get out of combat when the stress gets too bad.

Essentially it is now not an all volunteer military anymore. This is a draft. He is being called to active duty involuntarily. He doesn't want to go.

What I am looking for is comments on what people think he should do. Also, if anyone has heard of someone who has fought this and not had to go back on active duty, please respond. This is a real situation. He is a real person. I did not make this up for some political discussion or political motives.

[burritos]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bestmapman @ Sep 27 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]518518[/snapback]</div>

My business partner's niece is engaged to be married on Nov 2. Her husband to be is a ex Marine. Yes I said ex Marine not former Marine. About a month ago, the marine reserve called and asked him if he wanted to come back on active duty. They offered him a $30,000.00 reenlistment bonus to come back on active duty. He served four years on active duty, including two tours in iraq for one year each for a total of two years in iraq. When he first signed up he volunteered. He was patriotic 19 year old and thought he was doing the right thing. He served honorably and received an honorable discharge. He said no, I do not want to go back into the Marines.

His service was rough. He has permanent hearing loss in one ear and has suffered greatly with the effects of combat, reoccurring nightmares and other problems. Probably not that uncommon, but traumatic nonetheless. He stuck it out and finished his tour of duty. Served his country honorably.

A week ago the reserve called and said he had to come back on active duty anyway. Since he didn't take the $30,000.00 bonus when offered he now wasn't eligible for it, and couldn't get it. They sent him airline tickets yesterday to report on Sep. 30th.

The reason he turned down the $30,000.00 is that he says he can't take combat again. He said that he will not come back this time. He said he will either be killed or he will kill himself to get out of combat when the stress gets too bad.

Essentially it is now not an all volunteer military anymore. This is a draft. He is being called to active duty involuntarily. He doesn't want to go.

What I am looking for is comments on what people think he should do. Also, if anyone has heard of someone who has fought this and not had to go back on active duty, please respond. This is a real situation. He is a real person. I did not make this up for some political discussion or political motives.
[/b]

Can he call the NAACP? Are any of his rights being violated? There are many online organizations for vets against the war. Call the news agencies?

I don't understand why is it that you can change your mind about practically everything in America(jobs, marriage, religion, even your sex), but you can't do it once you join the military? Do military personnel sign away their rights to liberty and life when they sign up?

[hyo silver]

I'd say they could come hide out in my basement, but I don't think fleeing to Canada will work like it used to. Conscientious objectors from Vietnam are still being rounded up. Any chance he'd be excused for medical reasons?

[JSH]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Sep 27 2007, 11:59 AM) [snapback]518530[/snapback]</div>

Can he call the NAACP? Are any of his rights being violated? There are many online organizations for vets against the war. Call the news agencies?

I don't understand why is it that you can change your mind about practically everything in America(jobs, marriage, religion, even your sex), but you can't do it once you join the military? Do military personnel sign away their rights to liberty and life when they sign up?
[/b]

No, his rights are not being violated. It is all part of the contract that he signed when he joined the Marine Corps. For both reserve and active duty there is a period of time after you are discharged that they can recall you if necessary. It is called the Individual Ready Reserve and the amount of time that you remain in the reserve varies. If you retire from the military they can recall you basically until you die.

Involuntary Order to Active Duty: The Secretary of a Military Department may order any retired Regular member, retired Reserve member who has completed at least 20 years of active military service, or a member of the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve to active duty without the member's consent at any time to perform duties deemed necessary in the interests of national defense in accordance with 10 U.S.C. 683 (reference (). This includes the authority to order a retired member who is subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) to active duty to facilitate the exercise of court-martial jurisdiction under Section 302(a) of reference (. A retired member may not be involuntarily ordered to active duty solely for obtaining court-martial jurisdiction over the member.

Category I. Nondisability military retirees under age 60 who have been retired less than 5 years. E1.1.3.2.
Category II. Nondisability military retirees under age 60 who have retired 5 years or more.
Category III. Military retirees, including those retired for disability, other than categories I or II retirees (includes warrant officers and health care professionals who retire from active duty after age 60).


My brother-in-law was discharged from the Navy Seabees last month after 6 years and two tours in Iraq. However, he is well aware that he can be called back if they need him.

I very seriously looked into joining the Navy Reserve in 2002. (To the point that I had purchased most of the items needed for boot camp.) However, in my research I found that I was committing to about a 10 year period that the Navy would have control over my life. In the end I decided that was too much and decided against it.

[burritos]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Sep 27 2007, 01:06 PM) [snapback]518573[/snapback]</div>

No, his rights are not being violated. It is all part of the contract that he signed when he joined the Marine Corps. For both reserve and active duty there is a period of time after you are discharged that they can recall you if necessary. It is called the Individual Ready Reserve and the amount of time that you remain in the reserve varies. If you retire from the military they can recall you basically until you die.

Involuntary Order to Active Duty: The Secretary of a Military Department may order any retired Regular member, retired Reserve member who has completed at least 20 years of active military service, or a member of the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve to active duty without the member's consent at any time to perform duties deemed necessary in the interests of national defense in accordance with 10 U.S.C. 683 (reference (). This includes the authority to order a retired member who is subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) to active duty to facilitate the exercise of court-martial jurisdiction under Section 302(a) of reference (. A retired member may not be involuntarily ordered to active duty solely for obtaining court-martial jurisdiction over the member.

Category I. Nondisability military retirees under age 60 who have been retired less than 5 years. E1.1.3.2.
Category II. Nondisability military retirees under age 60 who have retired 5 years or more.
Category III. Military retirees, including those retired for disability, other than categories I or II retirees (includes warrant officers and health care professionals who retire from active duty after age 60).
My brother-in-law was discharged from the Navy Seabees last month after 6 years and two tours in Iraq. However, he is well aware that he can be called back if they need him.

I very seriously looked into joining the Navy Reserve in 2002. (To the point that I had purchased most of the items needed for boot camp.) However, in my research I found that I was committing to about a 10 year period that the Navy would have control over my life. In the end I decided that was too much and decided against it.
[/b]

Wow. That's a steep commitment.

[qbee42]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Sep 27 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]518573[/snapback]</div>

No, his rights are not being violated. It is all part of the contract that he signed when he joined the Marine Corps. For both reserve and active duty there is a period of time after you are discharged that they can recall you if necessary. It is called the Individual Ready Reserve and the amount of time that you remain in the reserve varies. If you retire from the military they can recall you basically until you die.
[/b]

Officers also face possible recall unless they have resigned their commissions, even after the IRR period ends. This is a technical loophole that has surprised many in recent years.

Tom

[eagle33199]

I would say bring it to the news agencies. There's bound to be a reporter more than willing to sit him down, interview him about his experiences (in and after Iraq), and tell the whole world that the military offered him money to come back, and when he said no they took away the bribe and pulled out the big stick to force him back.

I can promise you that these sorts of activities are not very well known. With the current public opinion of the war, i'd say the news agencies will provide him with better than an even chance of not having to go back. The military will be embarrassed by the bad publicity, as will the administration that's working so hard to tell us that the soldiers feel good about the war. I'd put money down that, with enough publicity, they'd call him up and say "sorry, our mistake. enjoy your life here at home".

[qbee42]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 27 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]518593[/snapback]</div>

I would say bring it to the news agencies. There's bound to be a reporter more than willing to sit him down, interview him about his experiences (in and after Iraq), and tell the whole world that the military offered him money to come back, and when he said no they took away the bribe and pulled out the big stick to force him back.

I can promise you that these sorts of activities are not very well known. With the current public opinion of the war, i'd say the news agencies will provide him with better than an even chance of not having to go back. The military will be embarrassed by the bad publicity, as will the administration that's working so hard to tell us that the soldiers feel good about the war. I'd put money down that, with enough publicity, they'd call him up and say "sorry, our mistake. enjoy your life here at home".
[/b]

It's worth a try, but don't hold your breath. This strategy has been tried by a lot of people, and it hasn't relieved them of their service obligations. Remember that this is within the contract of his service agreement and within the laws of our country, so as much as it stinks to high heaven, it's still completely legal and customary.

Tom

[airportkid]

If we're this hard up sustaining what has long been demonstrated to be a not even adequate ground force in Iraq, what, exactly, is the Cheney cabal going to attack Iran with? The Punxsutawney Volunteer Fire Brigade? Or perhaps this IS why they haven't yet attacked Iran.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

[EricGo]

Get him diagnosed with PTSD and clinical depression, and then apply for medical deferment.