57 mpg? That's so 20 years ago

**Tideland Prius** · 01-01-2008, 03:33 PM

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Car makers are confident they can meet new government rules calling for a national fleet average of 35 miles per gallon. But it will take a big technological push, they say.

You might wonder why, since twenty years ago the car that got the best mileage in the nation was a real techno-wimp compared to what's on the road today. It wasn't even a hybrid. But it got better fuel economy than any car sold now - even the Toyota Prius.

Looking back at the 1987 Honda Civic CRX shows us why cars use so much more gas today and about the trade-offs we've had to make.

The CRX HF got an Environmental Protection Agency-estimated 57 mpg gallon in highway driving. Today, the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid Civic you can buy gets an EPA-estimated 34 mpg on the highway. Even today's Honda Civic Hybrid can't match it, achieving EPA-estimated highway mileage of just 45 mpg. The Toyota Prius, today's fuel mileage champ, gets 46 mpg on the highway.

Full Article

Flying White Dutchman · 01-01-2008, 04:19 PM

cars need to be lighter

WARHORSE · 01-01-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lIon

cars need to be lighter

absolutely, the great Colin Chapman who founded Lotus cars was asked what he did to make his cars so fast, he said "add lightness"

The Lotus Elise and the Tesla which is based on the Elise are excellent examples

The next gen Ferraris will probably be a lot more Lotus like

as for the CRX, I bought a CRX HF 2nd gen right around when the 1st Gulf war started and I could go 2 weeks on a tank

darelldd · 01-01-2008, 07:38 PM

The CRX certainly got much better mileage. It also certainly polluted a hell of a lot more than today's cars. Comparing the CRX to today's cars (with safety and pollution improvements - not to mention size - is similar to comparing the Prius to the Corolla.)

I do absolutely agree that the fleet average can very easily be significantly higher than it is today with no tech breakthroughs needed. Heck, I'm driving a car that was designed in the early 80's that gets about 200 mpg equivalent.

omgitsroy326 · 01-02-2008, 02:09 AM

to make it more fair... they should compare to Prius' old EPA

ShellyT · 01-02-2008, 01:02 PM

They mention the CRX's updated EPA numbers later on, and article does go on a little on how a little 20yr old two seater wouldn't be sellable today(no AC or safety features).

hyo silver · 01-02-2008, 01:44 PM

My primary vehicle got 80mpg in 1981. My mileage has been steadily improving since then. After the motorcycle, I took (less than) rapid transit, then rode my bicycle, then mostly walked, and now most of my work comes to me.

**Tideland Prius** · 01-02-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lIon

cars need to be lighter

Yep. Reducing weight does a lot more than anything else because:

- saves fuel
- saves wear & tear on tyres
- reduce wear and tear on the roads (esp with our soft road material)
- better handling (less weight to shift around)
- reduces emissions (as a result of less fuel burned)
- reduces waste (lighter car, smaller wheels/tyres can be used, less rubber used)

ShellyT · 01-03-2008, 12:28 PM

The question is how to do it and still get people to buy it. The model bloat doesn't help, but I believe most of the weight gains are from safety features. At least it is something people won't be willing to give up.

**Tideland Prius** · 01-03-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyT

The question is how to do it and still get people to buy it. The model bloat doesn't help, but I believe most of the weight gains are from safety features. At least it is something people won't be willing to give up.

some of it is, others is just cost - manufacturers don't want to spend on aluminium.

Think about it. Our 2002 Camry XLE (so it has a power moonroof, 6 airbags, power seats and so forth) weighs 1,500kg. Check out a loaded Caliber or Nitro. They both weigh the same or more than the Camry yet are smaller vehicles.

Heck, the new 07 Camry LE weighs the same as our 02 Camry XLE. Even Toyota cut back on aluminium use on the new model.

01-01-2008, 03:33 PM	#1
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 19,620 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 229 Thanked 345 Times in 244 Posts Friends: 23	57 mpg? That's so 20 years ago NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Car makers are confident they can meet new government rules calling for a national fleet average of 35 miles per gallon. But it will take a big technological push, they say. You might wonder why, since twenty years ago the car that got the best mileage in the nation was a real techno-wimp compared to what's on the road today. It wasn't even a hybrid. But it got better fuel economy than any car sold now - even the Toyota Prius. Looking back at the 1987 Honda Civic CRX shows us why cars use so much more gas today and about the trade-offs we've had to make. The CRX HF got an Environmental Protection Agency-estimated 57 mpg gallon in highway driving. Today, the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid Civic you can buy gets an EPA-estimated 34 mpg on the highway. Even today's Honda Civic Hybrid can't match it, achieving EPA-estimated highway mileage of just 45 mpg. The Toyota Prius, today's fuel mileage champ, gets 46 mpg on the highway. Full Article __________________ 2005 Tideland Pearl Premium Package 25/10/04 VVT-i Emblem, Sport Pedals, All-Weather Mats, Cargo Mat, EV Mod, JDM Prius Footwell Lighting, DICE iPod Kit 2008 Deep Black smart fortwo passion coupé - sold (6.1L/100km) 2010 Blue Ribbon Metallic Technology Package 29/08/09 All-Weather Mats, Homemade Console Pads, LED lighting "Ask an Expert" on Facebook I am not employed by Toyota, and the opinions expressed by me as a Prius Expert are not those of Toyota.

01-01-2008, 04:19 PM	#2
Flying White Dutchman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,546 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: Package: Thanks: 3 Thanked 183 Times in 150 Posts Friends: 9	Re: 57 mpg? That's so 20 years ago cars need to be lighter

01-01-2008, 07:38 PM	#4
darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 5,336 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 18 Thanked 44 Times in 32 Posts Friends: 12	Re: 57 mpg? That's so 20 years ago The CRX certainly got much better mileage. It also certainly polluted a hell of a lot more than today's cars. Comparing the CRX to today's cars (with safety and pollution improvements - not to mention size - is similar to comparing the Prius to the Corolla.) I do absolutely agree that the fleet average can very easily be significantly higher than it is today with no tech breakthroughs needed. Heck, I'm driving a car that was designed in the early 80's that gets about 200 mpg equivalent.

01-02-2008, 02:09 AM	#5
omgitsroy326 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 262 My Car: 2008 Prius Model: Package: #2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Re: 57 mpg? That's so 20 years ago to make it more fair... they should compare to Prius' old EPA

01-02-2008, 01:02 PM	#6
ShellyT Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 482 My Car: Other Non-Hybrid Model: Package: N/A Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Friends: 0	Re: 57 mpg? That's so 20 years ago They mention the CRX's updated EPA numbers later on, and article does go on a little on how a little 20yr old two seater wouldn't be sellable today(no AC or safety features).

01-02-2008, 01:44 PM	#7
hyo silver awaaay Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 10,726 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: Base Thanks: 47 Thanked 152 Times in 107 Posts Friends: 63	My primary vehicle got 80mpg in 1981. My mileage has been steadily improving since then. After the motorcycle, I took (less than) rapid transit, then rode my bicycle, then mostly walked, and now most of my work comes to me.

01-03-2008, 12:28 PM	#9
ShellyT Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 482 My Car: Other Non-Hybrid Model: Package: N/A Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Friends: 0	Re: 57 mpg? That's so 20 years ago The question is how to do it and still get people to buy it. The model bloat doesn't help, but I believe most of the weight gains are from safety features. At least it is something people won't be willing to give up.