Random Thoughts After Seeing a Rare Altima Hybrid

**Tideland Prius** · 02-28-2008, 03:24 AM

So here I was going home along a major thoroughfare. Just another drizzly day and the usual traffic. On the left was a Nissan Altima.... Hybrid. Oh, that's nice! The second one I've seen. The difference was the plates. It was from Alberta and it was the rental car plates. Didn't know you could rent an Altima Hybrid in Canada.

So while I crawled along in traffic, I was thinking. Toyota not only had the headstart in hybrid technology, but all the rebates and such (esp. in B.C.) are creating a positive feedback effect making it a lot harder for other manufacturers to catch up.

You see, Toyota probably invested a lot of money into this hybrid system in creating the G21 car. Now Toyota has two things going for it - it's reputation for solid reliability and the fact that the Prius has been around for a few years. A third was thrown into the mix when, in 2004, B.C. announced that it would pay 30% or $1,000 whichever was less of the PST if one was to buy a hybrid vehicle. This included the brand new 2005 FEH and 2004 HCH. This was bumped to a a full refund up to $2,000 of the PST in 2005 (a few months after I got Prius

).

Last year, the federal gov't stepped in and offered GST rebates to fuel efficient cars (not just hybrids like the B.C. gov't). The Prius and HCH got $2,000, the TCH gets $1,500, the FEH gets $1,500, the 07 HiHy gets $1,000 but the new 08 HiHy gets $1,500, the RXh gets $1,000. The GSh and LSh do not qualify. (GST rebates come in the form of a cheque so if you paid less than the amount like the HCH, the gov't actually pays YOU to buy a hybrid!)

To sweeten the deal, Toyota Canada has dropped its prices for ALL its models (including Lexus) so now a Prius can be had with $4,000 worth of tax refunds plus a lower price.

Ok, so now that I've set the scenario. This means that Toyota Canada has been able to sell quite a number of hybrids because the rebates make them appealing, especially to taxi drivers. Anybody who's visited Victoria or Vancouver would know the biggest taxi is a Camry or Altima. The rest are Prius, Corolla and a few Jettas and HCHs. The Crown Vic is dead (I've only seen one in the last year).

Because Toyota can sell quite a number (and I realise it's still less than the US but assuming the prices reflect the fact that they can't sell as many cars here as they can in the US), Toyota Canada can make a decent profit out of all this.

The more hybrids they sell, the more money they can make. The more money they can make, the more resources they have back in Japan to fund the development of future hybrid technology.

This is something the other auto makers can't match because they still don't have products out yet and even if they do come out, they won't be as big of a profit yet because it's the first gen and they're (I assuming) recouping development costs.

(Side note, I wasn't thinking ALL of that while driving. I'm just expanding my thoughts now).

1 in 4 Camrys sold in B.C. is a hybrid. 1 in 10 are hybrids if you include the entire country. In the UK, the RXh is Toyota's best selling hybrid. 80% of RXs sold there are hybrid models. Of course in the US, the Prius is Toyota's 3rd best selling car after the Camry and Corolla.

Anyway, I'm just wondering how much of this is for publicity too (aside from the lower pollution). Some of you may know that the 2010 Olympics are coming to B.C. so perhaps Ottawa wants us to buy more hybrids so that we can be representative of Canada and people will think that Canadians are environmentally responsible with so many hybrids on the road (when it's really just us here in B.C.

). Perhaps PCers in Ontario can tell us how the hybrid situation is over there.

Anyway, I've talked for long enough. Your thoughts? (if you've actually made it through the entire post lol).

dogfriend · 02-28-2008, 03:43 PM

I've seen a couple of Altima hybrids here in Sacramento, CA but I see many many more Prius everyday driving to and from work. The Prius no longer qualifies for a tax credit here, but the number of new ones still appears to be increasing.

usbseawolf2000 · 02-28-2008, 06:28 PM

When are the PST and GST tax rebates set to expire?

**Tideland Prius** · 02-28-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogfriend

I've seen a couple of Altima hybrids here in Sacramento, CA but I see many many more Prius everyday driving to and from work. The Prius no longer qualifies for a tax credit here, but the number of new ones still appears to be increasing.

They're rare as heck up here. There is none in the showroom or on the dealers lot. They won't even mention it unless you ask!

Quote:

Originally Posted by usbseawolf2000

When are the PST and GST tax rebates set to expire?

GST - 31st Dec 2008. You have up til Mar 2009 to send in your application
PST - Apr 2011 (used to be $1,000 this Apr and gone by next Apr).

I don't know about the PST rebates in Ontario or PEI.

dogfriend · 02-28-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

They're rare as heck up here. There is none in the showroom or on the dealers lot. They won't even mention it unless you ask!

A couple of the dealers here in Sac were advertising with special financing for the Altima Hybrid. I will probably start seeing more as the cost of gas rises this spring.

**Tideland Prius** · 02-29-2008, 12:09 AM

I've heard nothing from Ford, Nissan or Honda here. It's all Toyota. It's to the point that other manufacturers cried foul (Honda did but rectified the situation later to allow its Fit model to qualify for the EcoAuto GST rebate but only in manual transmission spec. The Yaris qualifies in both manual and auto spec)

cwerdna · 02-29-2008, 03:36 AM

I've seen a few running around in the Bay Area. Also, my mom bought a leftover 07 NAH recently. The $2350 federal tax credit vs. $0 now on all Toyota/Lexus hybrids made it effectively much cheaper than the HyCam.

tripp · 02-29-2008, 12:54 PM

Never seen one, but we're not a CARB state so they're not sold here. Part of the reason you don't see many is that I doubt Nissan are making very many of them (why would they, they have to pay Toyota royalties).

**Tideland Prius** · 02-29-2008, 02:57 PM

Yep that's probably why. Hell, there really isn't a brochure for it, just a fold-out piece of paper. Disappointing really.

02-28-2008, 03:24 AM	#1
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 19,407 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 215 Thanked 327 Times in 228 Posts Friends: 22	Random Thoughts After Seeing a Rare Altima Hybrid So here I was going home along a major thoroughfare. Just another drizzly day and the usual traffic. On the left was a Nissan Altima.... Hybrid. Oh, that's nice! The second one I've seen. The difference was the plates. It was from Alberta and it was the rental car plates. Didn't know you could rent an Altima Hybrid in Canada. So while I crawled along in traffic, I was thinking. Toyota not only had the headstart in hybrid technology, but all the rebates and such (esp. in B.C.) are creating a positive feedback effect making it a lot harder for other manufacturers to catch up. You see, Toyota probably invested a lot of money into this hybrid system in creating the G21 car. Now Toyota has two things going for it - it's reputation for solid reliability and the fact that the Prius has been around for a few years. A third was thrown into the mix when, in 2004, B.C. announced that it would pay 30% or $1,000 whichever was less of the PST if one was to buy a hybrid vehicle. This included the brand new 2005 FEH and 2004 HCH. This was bumped to a a full refund up to $2,000 of the PST in 2005 (a few months after I got Prius ). Last year, the federal gov't stepped in and offered GST rebates to fuel efficient cars (not just hybrids like the B.C. gov't). The Prius and HCH got $2,000, the TCH gets $1,500, the FEH gets $1,500, the 07 HiHy gets $1,000 but the new 08 HiHy gets $1,500, the RXh gets $1,000. The GSh and LSh do not qualify. (GST rebates come in the form of a cheque so if you paid less than the amount like the HCH, the gov't actually pays YOU to buy a hybrid!) To sweeten the deal, Toyota Canada has dropped its prices for ALL its models (including Lexus) so now a Prius can be had with $4,000 worth of tax refunds plus a lower price. Ok, so now that I've set the scenario. This means that Toyota Canada has been able to sell quite a number of hybrids because the rebates make them appealing, especially to taxi drivers. Anybody who's visited Victoria or Vancouver would know the biggest taxi is a Camry or Altima. The rest are Prius, Corolla and a few Jettas and HCHs. The Crown Vic is dead (I've only seen one in the last year). Because Toyota can sell quite a number (and I realise it's still less than the US but assuming the prices reflect the fact that they can't sell as many cars here as they can in the US), Toyota Canada can make a decent profit out of all this. The more hybrids they sell, the more money they can make. The more money they can make, the more resources they have back in Japan to fund the development of future hybrid technology. This is something the other auto makers can't match because they still don't have products out yet and even if they do come out, they won't be as big of a profit yet because it's the first gen and they're (I assuming) recouping development costs. (Side note, I wasn't thinking ALL of that while driving. I'm just expanding my thoughts now). 1 in 4 Camrys sold in B.C. is a hybrid. 1 in 10 are hybrids if you include the entire country. In the UK, the RXh is Toyota's best selling hybrid. 80% of RXs sold there are hybrid models. Of course in the US, the Prius is Toyota's 3rd best selling car after the Camry and Corolla. Anyway, I'm just wondering how much of this is for publicity too (aside from the lower pollution). Some of you may know that the 2010 Olympics are coming to B.C. so perhaps Ottawa wants us to buy more hybrids so that we can be representative of Canada and people will think that Canadians are environmentally responsible with so many hybrids on the road (when it's really just us here in B.C. ). Perhaps PCers in Ontario can tell us how the hybrid situation is over there. Anyway, I've talked for long enough. Your thoughts? (if you've actually made it through the entire post lol). __________________ 2005 Tideland Pearl Premium Package 25/10/04 VVT-i Emblem, Sport Pedals, All-Weather Mats, Cargo Mat, EV Mod, JDM Prius Footwell Lighting, DICE iPod Kit 2008 smart fortwo passion coupé - sold (6.1L/100km) 2010 Blue Ribbon Metallic Technology Package 29/08/09 All-Weather Mats, Homemade Console Pads "Ask an Expert" on Facebook I am not employed by Toyota, and the opinions expressed by me as a Prius Expert are not those of Toyota.

02-28-2008, 03:43 PM	#2
dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Carmichael, CA Posts: 4,823 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 239 Thanked 150 Times in 126 Posts Friends: 10	Re: Random Thoughts After Seeing a Rare Altima Hybrid I've seen a couple of Altima hybrids here in Sacramento, CA but I see many many more Prius everyday driving to and from work. The Prius no longer qualifies for a tax credit here, but the number of new ones still appears to be increasing.

02-28-2008, 06:28 PM	#3
usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 3,252 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: #3 Thanks: 104 Thanked 172 Times in 108 Posts Friends: 59	Re: Random Thoughts After Seeing a Rare Altima Hybrid When are the PST and GST tax rebates set to expire?

02-29-2008, 12:09 AM	#6
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 19,407 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 215 Thanked 327 Times in 228 Posts Friends: 22	Re: Random Thoughts After Seeing a Rare Altima Hybrid I've heard nothing from Ford, Nissan or Honda here. It's all Toyota. It's to the point that other manufacturers cried foul (Honda did but rectified the situation later to allow its Fit model to qualify for the EcoAuto GST rebate but only in manual transmission spec. The Yaris qualifies in both manual and auto spec)

02-29-2008, 03:36 AM	#7
cwerdna Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seattle area, WA Posts: 2,280 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: N/A Package: #7 Thanks: 26 Thanked 59 Times in 51 Posts Friends: 3	I've seen a few I've seen a few running around in the Bay Area. Also, my mom bought a leftover 07 NAH recently. The $2350 federal tax credit vs. $0 now on all Toyota/Lexus hybrids made it effectively much cheaper than the HyCam.

02-29-2008, 12:54 PM	#8
tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it? Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,323 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: Package: #3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Friends: 6	Re: Random Thoughts After Seeing a Rare Altima Hybrid Never seen one, but we're not a CARB state so they're not sold here. Part of the reason you don't see many is that I doubt Nissan are making very many of them (why would they, they have to pay Toyota royalties).

02-29-2008, 02:57 PM	#9
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 19,407 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 215 Thanked 327 Times in 228 Posts Friends: 22	Re: Random Thoughts After Seeing a Rare Altima Hybrid Yep that's probably why. Hell, there really isn't a brochure for it, just a fold-out piece of paper. Disappointing really.