The Money Goes to Japan with Every Sale of a Toyota

[Dave_PH]

As long as my money doesn't go to Texas I'm happy

[malorn]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

In a true global market situation, which we are pretty close to (ignoring local subsidies, import tariffs, etc) you end up with communities and countries performing specialized work. If Japan can build better cars than America, it's actually detrimental to everyone's economy to attempt to artificially prop up the American auto industry.

through advances in Agriculture, we've managed to increase the yield from one acre of corn 10 fold - that means we have less farmers producing more grain at a cheaper price which has, in turn, absolutely crippled other countries agriculture industries (Primarily Mexico, and is one of the primary reasons we have an illegal immigration problem).

I say buy the best products you can, regardless of where they come from. Allow the market forces to take hold and our specialties to provide for us. Every country has to find it's niche, it's playing field where it can be competitive on a global market. For the US, that is no longer automotive design and manufacture.

A global market situation? Is that free trade?
How about government subsidies in the form of:
-free export transportation
-free or reduced rate energy
-free or reduced rate capital
-government sponsored or co-op r&d
-government funded health care and pensions
-cash cow closed home market
-government sponsored commercial espionage and spying
-govenment funded "cultural" programs in market countries

to name a few.

Free trade does not exist. We can only hope for and work towards semi-fair-trade.

[ctbering]

On the face of this tread it sounds like a little racism at work . We are a corporate society. Those really nice Big 3 automakers who purged their plants from Michigan and devastated whole cities and everyone blames the Japanese. The japanese build quality Toyotas in Kentucky. Aren't the americans building quality cars there? Does it make americans feel better that americans become wealthy even if the public drives poorly built cars? Wouldn't a car buyer appreciate the japanese dong well if the quality of the cars are excellent? America today is owned by foreign investors. It is economically disadvantageous for America to be in this position but its the reality. Our politicians that rant about big government now have us up to or eyeballs in the national debt. Is it trillons now? Nothing like policing the world to keep us in our place. Who is watching the store anyway?
I think in time corporations will just buy countries legally, just like a global Monopoly game. We went from having wars to procuring a country to corporations impacting the national economy to such a degree that foreign investment takes precedent to our own country. Why not have corporations buying countries? At least its straightforward.

[malorn]

Originally Posted by ctbering

On the face of this tread it sounds like a little racism at work . We are a corporate society. Those really nice Big 3 automakers who purged their plants from Michigan and devastated whole cities and everyone blames the Japanese. The japanese build quality Toyotas in Kentucky. Aren't the americans building quality cars there? Does it make americans feel better that americans become wealthy even if the public drives poorly built cars? Wouldn't a car buyer appreciate the japanese dong well if the quality of the cars are excellent? America today is owned by foreign investors. It is economically disadvantageous for America to be in this position but its the reality. Our politicians that rant about big government now have us up to or eyeballs in the national debt. Is it trillons now? Nothing like policing the world to keep us in our place. Who is watching the store anyway?
I think in time corporations will just buy countries legally, just like a global Monopoly game. We went from having wars to procuring a country to corporations impacting the national economy to such a degree that foreign investment takes precedent to our own country. Why not have corporations buying countries? At least its straightforward.

You said it all right there. Much of our debt is owned by foreign countries, you read about it everyday, banks etc getting funds from foreign countries to sustain their borrowing. It is really a great plan first implemented by the Japanese and now being copied on a much grander scale by the Chinese and Indians. Start with small scale items and do whatever it takes to bankrupt entire industries, gradually moving up both the scope and value of the industries involved and eventually tackling the largest value-producing industries.
Junky toys....textiles......small electronics......furnitures........large electronics.......automobiles...........aerospace? ...........homes?

Eventually the wealth has been completely transferred.

Someday we will find out how much our mainstream media has been unknowingly duped into this whole mess.

The US trade Deficit will be nearly $1,000,000,000,000 in 2008.

[nerfer]

Originally Posted by malorn

So which automakers are building "crappy" products and show me some solid sources. And a solid source is not your grandmother who bought a Vega in 1973 and lots of trouble with it.

Rather than saying something bad about somebody, I'll go with the most reliable (altho in the links they tell the full story). Consumer Reports is a good start, like this report:

"Reliability remains a forte for most Japanese brands. Twenty-three of the 33 models in our “most reliable” list are from Japanese automakers. Moreover, we’ve predicted average reliability or better for all Honda and Subaru models based on our most recent survey.

This year’s forecast shows that domestic models, led by Ford, continue to improve and that there are small improvements in European makes as well."

Or gizmag article for the UK listing top ten cars for reliability says "... congratulations to the Japanese automotive industry which supplied every car in the Top 10, and an amazing 16 of the Top 20."

And you gotta love this article about J.D.Powers research of problems in 3-year-old cars. It has Lexus as #1 (for 14 years straight), but surprisingly Mercury #2, Cadillac #3, Toyota #4, Acura #5. (rating all problems equally, including complaints about wind noise and window fogging).

The Toyota Prius was first in reliability in the Compact Car segment, with 141 PP100 (problems per 100 vehicles) in the most recent J.D. Power survey. That makes it one of the most reliable cars on the road, which is even more remarkable given the number of tech toys in the Prius.

Yes, if a domestic auto maker made a car, any car, that was reliable, practical and got at least 40 mpg I probably would have bought that instead of the Prius. But they don't, so the question is moot. Until that day, I'd rather send money to Japan than to OPEC, even if the ratio is ten to one. We have a LTR with Japan, OPEC just wants to rape us and then leave us for dead when peak oil really hits. (And I'm not buying the POS South Korean Chevy Aveo by Daewoo, which is an embarrassment to all small cars. Sorry, but you can't consider that a domestic car even with the Chevy nameplate. But I did think about the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe, which is reliable and built in the U.S.)

[nerfer]

Originally Posted by malorn

A global market situation? Is that free trade?
How about government subsidies in the form of:
-free export transportation
-free or reduced rate energy
-free or reduced rate capital
-government sponsored or co-op r&d
-government funded health care and pensions
-cash cow closed home market
-government sponsored commercial espionage and spying
-govenment funded "cultural" programs in market countries

to name a few.

Free trade does not exist. We can only hope for and work towards semi-fair-trade.

The one I bold-faced bothers me. Our government set up the PNGV (partnership for next generation vehicle) with the Big-3 for the express purpose of combining funds and R&D to make a commercially viable family sedan that got 80 mpg. Toyota wasn't allowed to join this group, so they went their own way and made the Prius. Meanwhile, the Big-3 paid lip service to this project and promptly forgot all about when Bush came into office (and GM went wacko on the fuel cell research, spending over a billion dollars on that, money I bet they wish they still had). Each manufacturer should have had a high-mpg vehicle to respond with to answer to the Prius, but somehow none of their prototypes were made production worthy in the intervening years and now they're starting from scratch again.

So you can say what you want about Japan's government sponsoring R&D. Our government tried that with our Big-3 and it did no good. You can lead a horse to water...

[patsparks]

Malorn, are you trying to tell us the total mark-up on a new Toyota from dock to final purchaser is only $4000? That being split between the distributor and dealer including all land transport!

We can also assume that an American car is 100% American, right? There are no imported parts, patents or technology in an American car?

Either way, I don't care, Toyota are now as Australian as Ford and Holden. I also know if I buy anything other than a big 6 or V8 from any but Toyota the car is an import anyway. Only Toyota actually build a 4 cylinder car in Australia.

[tochatihu]

My word for the day; Hummerski.

"Deripaska" will simplify googling

[malorn]

[quote=patsparks;690261]Malorn, are you trying to tell us the total mark-up on a new Toyota from dock to final purchaser is only $4000? That being split between the distributor and dealer including all land transport!

We can also assume that an American car is 100% American, right? There are no imported parts, patents or technology in an American car?
quote]
The mark up is obviously is not the same on every vehicle, but on a $22,000 Prius I would be surprised if it is even $4,000.

On the second comment, of course no car is 100% US made but you are missing the big picture. Where does the car/truck come from? engine transmission to the design to the engineering to the profit being taxed? I am so tired of the imports fraudulently painting themselves as American and painting Ford and GM as mexican.

[patsparks]

Lets play with some numbers here.
I buy a Prius worth $22,000 or a good old US of A truck like an F series for the same sort of money, after all I have a budget.
I travel 15,000 miles a year. A car has a life of say 20 years, not just for the purchaser but the entire life of the vehicle. So over the life of the vehicle will travel about 300,000 miles for arguments sake.

Prius gets 55 miles to the gallon and the ef series manages say 18mpg so over the life of a Prius we will use 5454.54 gallons of gas while a F series will use 16,666 gallons of gas or a little over 10,000 gallons of gas more than a Prius.

Over the life of the cars, 300,000 miles, and at todays gas prices the ef series gulps down about $40,000 worth of petroleum more than the Prius. So what portion of the petroleum is imported? How much money is the flag waving pig headed patriot sending to the middle east over the life of his American truck? How many car bombs and how much suicide training will that money buy?