The USA Needs a National Hybrid Retrofit Program

[donee]

Hi All,

There has been a program that could be a model of what could be done to implement hybrids. But its not a retrofit program.

Many states and metropolitan areas have had "cash for old-car programs". These are aimed at cars with poorest emissions.

A similar thing could be done for people willing to buy a hybrid better than 40 mpg EPA combined (for example). Or for people that would switch to public transport for commuting.

Give the goverment the old, functional car, and they give you either a voucher good towards the purchase of the Hybrid, or mass transit passes.

[DaveinOlyWA]

actually considering the mass transit system in Europe when i was there in 1979 and how long it had been around, i say we at LEAST 30 years behind

the cash for old cars program sounds awesome

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Originally Posted by Rokeby

This conversation needs some hard data. Somewhere in the internet fog I've
read about two possible candidates for the retrofit. One was a whole electric
rear axle -- European in origin? -- the other was motors added to the rear
wheels.

It certainly has crossed my mind of what could I do with the 2001 Prius for a second (electric) life. In every possible case, it ends up requiring the owner to become the entire service center AND spend a great deal of money. There are certainly many who have done electric conversions (http://metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm). So far they are pioneers, not saviors.

At the end of the day, the expense just does not work out as a method to save money overall. Someday this will change, but not quite yet.

[Neddleton]

with falling gas prices we can all see this has been a scam

[Rokeby]

Originally Posted by Neddleton

with falling gas prices we can all see this has been a scam

What is the antecedent for "this?"

[eagle33199]

Unfortunately, i think such a program would probably be too expensive to run, even for the government. Think about it - the DTV switch requires you to buy a $20 converter box for each TV you own - and then only if you don't have satellite or cable. So even if everyone in the US had 2 TV's working no the airwaves, the total cost would be 300 million * 2 * 20 = $12 billion. Less than the auto companies are asking for in their bailout. When you assume that 75% of people have cable or satellite, that number drops significantly.

Now, for a hybrid conversion, we're talking what, $5,000 if you're lucky?If the government subsidized half of that for our existing cars - around 150 million, i believe - you're talking about a much bigger pot of money. 150 million * 2,500 = $375 billion. And thats probably being generous.

I, for one, don't want to see our country get another trillion dollars of debt.

But despite the money problems, i certainly would like to see or national mileage increase

[DaveinOlyWA]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

Unfortunately, i think such a program would probably be too expensive to run, even for the government. Think about it - the DTV switch requires you to buy a $20 converter box for each TV you own - and then only if you don't have satellite or cable. So even if everyone in the US had 2 TV's working no the airwaves, the total cost would be 300 million * 2 * 20 = $12 billion. Less than the auto companies are asking for in their bailout. When you assume that 75% of people have cable or satellite, that number drops significantly.

Now, for a hybrid conversion, we're talking what, $5,000 if you're lucky?If the government subsidized half of that for our existing cars - around 150 million, i believe - you're talking about a much bigger pot of money. 150 million * 2,500 = $375 billion. And thats probably being generous.

I, for one, don't want to see our country get another trillion dollars of debt.

But despite the money problems, i certainly would like to see or national mileage increase

do know what the ROI is for every mile of increase per gallon is??

look at that first, then comment on how much it would cost. considering the manufacturing woes we currently have in this country, i think a buyback of older cars with deeply subsidized loans for new hybrids would be best. base the subsidy on what is "American made" if you must. Only allow American built TCH and Priuses to qualify along with the (hopefully) myriad of TRUE hybrid cars from the Big 3(nothing in passenger under 40 MPG or SUV/truck under 30 MPG need apply!!!)

realize that a 10 mpg overall increase in fleet mileage overall would save us in YEARLY OIL EXPENSE....50 billion? 100 Billion...if talking last summer, maybe even 200 Billion... high gas prices are not over. lets do something before they come back

[PriusSport]

I don't know if retrofitting is feasible, but it certainly makes sense in view of the huge inventory of new vehicles which are basically dinosaurs in the current market. Some of that $25 billion would be put to good use converting that inventory to hybrids. It will keep people working and improve marketability. $4 gas has killed the ICE car market.

[TonyPSchaefer]

A few quotes from President Bush's State of the Union addresses:

January 29, 2002

Good jobs also depend on reliable and affordable energy. This Congress must act to encourage conservation, promote technology, build infrastructure, and it must act to increase energy production at home so America is less dependent on foreign oil.

January 28, 2003
Join me in this important innovation to make our air significantly cleaner, and our country much less dependent on foreign sources of energy.

January 20, 2004
Consumers and businesses need reliable supplies of energy to make our economy run -- so I urge you to pass legislation to modernize our electricity system, promote conservation, and make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy.

February 2, 2005
Four years of debate is enough: I urge Congress to pass legislation that makes America more secure and less dependent on foreign energy.

January 31, 2006
Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy. And here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world. The best way to break this addiction is through technology. We must also change how we power our automobiles. We will increase our research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars. Breakthroughs on this and other new technologies will help us reach another great goal: to replace more than 75 percent of our oil imports from the Middle East by 2025. By applying the talent and technology of America, this country can dramatically improve our environment, move beyond a petroleum-based economy, and make our dependence on Middle Eastern oil a thing of the past.

January 23, 2007
For too long our nation has been dependent on foreign oil. And this dependence leaves us more vulnerable to hostile regimes, and to terrorists -- who could cause huge disruptions of oil shipments, and raise the price of oil, and do great harm to our economy.
We need to press on with battery research for plug-in and hybrid vehicles, and expand the use of clean diesel vehicles and biodiesel fuel.
Let us build on the work we've done and reduce gasoline usage in the United States by 20 percent in the next 10 years. When we do that we will have cut our total imports by the equivalent of three-quarters of all the oil we now import from the Middle East.


He said we should go to war and we went to war.
He said we should reduce our dependency on foreign oil and we went to war.

[Rokeby]

Here's an interesting idea along the lines of a retro-fit, any-car-can-be-
a-hybrid:

Retrofit kit said to transform cars into hybrids

"'What makes our approach different is we don't need to modify
anything in existing vehicles to turn them into a hybrid,' said Perry.
'We install the motor in the space between the brake mechanism and
the hub without any other modifications.'

"According to Perry, 80 percent of U.S. drivers make daily trips of less
than 30 miles at 40 miles per hour or slower, all of which could be
powered by his 10-15 horsepower electric motors to save as much as
120 million gallons of fuel per day in the U.S. alone, he claimed. The
motors would be powered by extra batteries installed in the
automobile's trunk.

"To develop the retrofit kit into a commercial product, Perry has
partnered with the Tennessee Technological University (Cookeville),
which will will build a working prototype within a year with about
$100,000 in existing funding. The next step will be to retrofit the kit on
30 state-owned vehicles for testing. If all goes as planned, Perry
estimates that within three years the final kits will be manufactured by
Palmer Labs in a new Tennessee facility that would employ about 2000
workers.

"Perry said the kit will cost between $3,000 to $5,000"

Yes, I know there are questions unanswered here: "extra batteries
installed in the trunk," no MPG figures, ride quality due unsprung
weight, etc.

Still, with any luck, it might have some merit.

A lengthy discussion here:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23246