Going up the driveway on ice and Traction Control

michalopoulosgk · 12-06-2005, 10:58 PM

I was coming up the driveway tonight, on relatively rough ice (not the smooth shiny surface, but fairly rough). The driveway has an inclination of about 20 degrees. I stopped just before the driveway and then started going up on it. Just before making it all the way to the top, the car just stopped. I could not accelerate, pump in gas, or anything else. I backed up towards the cul-de-sac, pulled back, built up speed and made it fairly quickly to the top of the driveway, with a scared passenger wife. I had heard about this issue with Prius and that it was due to rather aggressive implementation of Traction Control, I am concerned because I live in a city (Pittsburgh) with steep up hills that often get covered with ice and snow. I have to go to work on such hills, with stop and go traffic. If the car were to just skid and slip, it would be sort of normal. If it were to just stop, however, because of lack of equal traction from both sides, I could be in real trouble, with many cars behind me and in front of me on a steep hill.

I am driving a Prius 05, package 6. I installed brand new snow tires (high grip, Goodyear) less than a month ago. The car does fine on a flat surface, with snow or ice. I am concerned about the uphill drive to work. Other than changing residence, any thoughts?
GKM

Maytrix · 12-06-2005, 11:02 PM

I don't know. I've got the Blizzak Revo-1's and try as hard as I might, I can't get it to go out of control. Driving in the same conditions in my jeep, I could easily have gotten it to slid - not in the prius. I've also floored it in my driveway, which is very slippery right now and it still moves. Haven't hit a really bad hill yet.

michalopoulosgk · 12-06-2005, 11:31 PM

Have you tried going uphill on snow or rough ice?

MyPria · 12-06-2005, 11:46 PM

Michalopoulosqk,

I had the same thing happen to me today. I was coming up my very, very steep driveway on rough ice (same as you) and came to a complete stop halfway up. The accelerator did not work- it didn't do anything- I, too, backed up in a cul-de sac (really) and came up with more speed and made it to the top. I live in Colorado Springs which is also full of hills and stop and go driving in the winter. I have Michelin X-ice and have been getting around town just fine, but now I'm nervous about being on a hill and stopping. This is not in my head or yours, it really happened.

**Tideland Prius** · 12-07-2005, 12:12 AM

mmhmm. I did that last year but with stock tyres. I was going up a hill perfectly fine then realised, "oh crap, can I get back down?" so I stopped, thought about it then realised the accelerator pedal was dead and the car didn't let me go up any further.

MyPria · 12-07-2005, 12:35 AM

I didn't stop on my driveway. I would never stop halfway up because I know even 4wd vehicles need the momentum to get up to the top. The car quit moving and the accelerator would not accelerate. Really weird. I've lived in the same home for 24 years and have driven about every kind of car and suv up the driveway and never had one just stop and not accelerate. I don't know what was happening. I don't remember if traction came on.

craigcush · 12-07-2005, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by michalopoulosgk@Dec 6 2005, 10:58 PM

I am driving a Prius 05, package 6. I installed brand new snow tires (high grip, Goodyear) less than a month ago. The car does fine on a flat surface, with snow or ice. I am concerned about the uphill drive to work. Other than changing residence, any thoughts?
GKM

[snapback]169086[/snapback]

I can understand your concern. I have driven emergency vehicles in icy mountain conditions (6000-8000' elevation) for decades. Sliding sideways in a 40,000# fire truck with chains on is a thrill I don't wish to relive. (saved it)

Getting back to your question. The only real answer I can humbly offer is 'traction'. You did the snow tires, good, but studs might have helped more.

If the conditions are that slippery, the car will just refuse to LOSE contact with the ground.

The wheels would be spinning otherwise, this is sensed by the system to keep you from sliding, as you know.
And you would be grinding away in the same conditions in a non-equipped prius, may or may not be making any headway. Or with a lateral camber on the road, sliding sideways into a parked car or ditch.

The tire contact patch is your focus.

You didn't mention what you drove in your driveway previously. how did that compare?

robinredbreast · 12-07-2005, 06:35 AM

I know how you feel I live in farm country in S.W Lower MI right in the lake effect snow band. near ST. Joe .All the roads are hilly and dangerous are County only uses sand in spots to treat the roads. I live in a gully so to get to the street we need to get up that 60 foot long asphalt driveway strait up like yours. This is my second winter with the Prius and found for not losing control on straight roads is great but the traction control is treble. I'm very experienced in driving in snow and ice 25 plus years and driven dozen of autos through the years. I replaced my tires with Triple treads to try to help some it did on flat roads but not hills The traction kicks in and your dead in the water! The other day I needed to get up the driveway couldn't make it up with the Prius so I used my Daughters Saturn SL1 with OEM tires they spun but got me up and out.

Tomel · 12-07-2005, 07:37 AM

I know it doesn't help those currently having problems, but it looks like Toyota would address this problem. I've heard that the sensitivity of the traction control is designed to prevent a burnout of the electric motor. Since traction control is almost certainly computer controlled, seems like it would be no big deal for Toyota to simply cut the electric motor out of the loop in those situations where it could be damaged. Just automatically switch over to ICE only.

How about it Toyota. If this would work, why not do an program update and eliminate this issue from discussion on the various Prius forums.

michalopoulosgk · 12-07-2005, 07:48 AM

Many thanks to all of you, for your thoughtful comments and shared experiences. Prior to Prius, I used to drive a Volvo cross-country station wagon, never had a problem under identical conditions. It seems to me that Toyota should do something about this. Traction control is one thing but shutting down the ICE just to save on gas when you are stuck and your life may be in danger, is another matter.
Again, thanks to all.
GKM

12-06-2005, 10:58 PM	#1
michalopoulosgk Join Date: May 2005 Location: PA Posts: 43 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I was coming up the driveway tonight, on relatively rough ice (not the smooth shiny surface, but fairly rough). The driveway has an inclination of about 20 degrees. I stopped just before the driveway and then started going up on it. Just before making it all the way to the top, the car just stopped. I could not accelerate, pump in gas, or anything else. I backed up towards the cul-de-sac, pulled back, built up speed and made it fairly quickly to the top of the driveway, with a scared passenger wife. I had heard about this issue with Prius and that it was due to rather aggressive implementation of Traction Control, I am concerned because I live in a city (Pittsburgh) with steep up hills that often get covered with ice and snow. I have to go to work on such hills, with stop and go traffic. If the car were to just skid and slip, it would be sort of normal. If it were to just stop, however, because of lack of equal traction from both sides, I could be in real trouble, with many cars behind me and in front of me on a steep hill. I am driving a Prius 05, package 6. I installed brand new snow tires (high grip, Goodyear) less than a month ago. The car does fine on a flat surface, with snow or ice. I am concerned about the uphill drive to work. Other than changing residence, any thoughts? GKM __________________ GKM

12-06-2005, 11:46 PM	#4
MyPria Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorful Colorado Posts: 70 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Michalopoulosqk, I had the same thing happen to me today. I was coming up my very, very steep driveway on rough ice (same as you) and came to a complete stop halfway up. The accelerator did not work- it didn't do anything- I, too, backed up in a cul-de sac (really) and came up with more speed and made it to the top. I live in Colorado Springs which is also full of hills and stop and go driving in the winter. I have Michelin X-ice and have been getting around town just fine, but now I'm nervous about being on a hill and stopping. This is not in my head or yours, it really happened. __________________ 2006 Silver, Grey leather interior, Package #8 Car Name: Priatoo.

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12-06-2005, 11:02 PM	#2
Maytrix Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Marlborough, Mass Posts: 733 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: #6 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I don't know. I've got the Blizzak Revo-1's and try as hard as I might, I can't get it to go out of control. Driving in the same conditions in my jeep, I could easily have gotten it to slid - not in the prius. I've also floored it in my driveway, which is very slippery right now and it still moves. Haven't hit a really bad hill yet.

12-06-2005, 11:31 PM	#3
michalopoulosgk Join Date: May 2005 Location: PA Posts: 43 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Have you tried going uphill on snow or rough ice?

12-07-2005, 12:12 AM	#5
Tideland Prius Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 13,755 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: B Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 11	mmhmm. I did that last year but with stock tyres. I was going up a hill perfectly fine then realised, "oh crap, can I get back down?" so I stopped, thought about it then realised the accelerator pedal was dead and the car didn't let me go up any further.

12-07-2005, 12:35 AM	#6
MyPria Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorful Colorado Posts: 70 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I didn't stop on my driveway. I would never stop halfway up because I know even 4wd vehicles need the momentum to get up to the top. The car quit moving and the accelerator would not accelerate. Really weird. I've lived in the same home for 24 years and have driven about every kind of car and suv up the driveway and never had one just stop and not accelerate. I don't know what was happening. I don't remember if traction came on.

12-07-2005, 06:35 AM	#8
robinredbreast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: S.W Lower Michigan Posts: 42 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I know how you feel I live in farm country in S.W Lower MI right in the lake effect snow band. near ST. Joe .All the roads are hilly and dangerous are County only uses sand in spots to treat the roads. I live in a gully so to get to the street we need to get up that 60 foot long asphalt driveway strait up like yours. This is my second winter with the Prius and found for not losing control on straight roads is great but the traction control is treble. I'm very experienced in driving in snow and ice 25 plus years and driven dozen of autos through the years. I replaced my tires with Triple treads to try to help some it did on flat roads but not hills The traction kicks in and your dead in the water! The other day I needed to get up the driveway couldn't make it up with the Prius so I used my Daughters Saturn SL1 with OEM tires they spun but got me up and out.

12-07-2005, 07:37 AM	#9
Tomel Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 42 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I know it doesn't help those currently having problems, but it looks like Toyota would address this problem. I've heard that the sensitivity of the traction control is designed to prevent a burnout of the electric motor. Since traction control is almost certainly computer controlled, seems like it would be no big deal for Toyota to simply cut the electric motor out of the loop in those situations where it could be damaged. Just automatically switch over to ICE only. How about it Toyota. If this would work, why not do an program update and eliminate this issue from discussion on the various Prius forums.

12-07-2005, 07:48 AM	#10
michalopoulosgk Join Date: May 2005 Location: PA Posts: 43 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Many thanks to all of you, for your thoughtful comments and shared experiences. Prior to Prius, I used to drive a Volvo cross-country station wagon, never had a problem under identical conditions. It seems to me that Toyota should do something about this. Traction control is one thing but shutting down the ICE just to save on gas when you are stuck and your life may be in danger, is another matter. Again, thanks to all. GKM