My Method: "Pulse-Cruise / Neutral-Drive-Glide / Resume

[Mister Swigart]

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Edited Note: If you are just coming to this thread, I must warn that I make some mistakes and don't make all the necessary corrections and revisions until post #13. By that time the method will be called Pulse-Cruise/Cancel-Glide/Resume. - TLR
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I know I'm a newbie, but I'm an "old guy" who has been around cars so, I don't feel like a rookie. If you find this entry to be valuable you may make it sticky.

Well, I just spent the entire day "Sunday Driving" around the city streets, close to home, and practicing along my commute and its varying pathways. I have been reading a great deal here and I have not come across what I'm about to share with this group, but preliminary results from what I've discovered are very promising:

The materials provided by posters above has not been wasted on this driver. I went out with printed materials in hand to actually try some of these things. It really appeals to the engineer in me, to "play" with the controls and to seek "optimum conditions." What I came up with a little method I will introduce by the name "Pulse-Cruise/Neutral-Drive-Glide/Resume".

I was out driving today, and was most interested in this 40 to 30 and back to 40 mph business that is touted as being so successful in the articles mentioned to me by so many others. I have been reading a lot here at the Chat.

I was extremely frustrated with the inconsistent results I was getting. Initially, my results were so far off the 60 mpg number, that it sent me back to read more here. Mainly because I am excessively light-footed when I needed to be getting back on the accelerator, and then, at times, I was excessively heavy footed when I needed light acceleration or steady speed. I also have to watch the screen to "feather" the accelerator. I'm not too good at that, or willing to watch the screen that closely.

For me, the advice given in the "Pulse-and-Glide" technique used to set the 109 mpg record, definitely worked. Using it, I was getting close to 50 mpg columns consistently all morning -- until now I was lucky to keep an average at 39 mpg -- so that helped.

While shopping, today, I kept thinking about how well I could do if I could iron out the rough-spots in my technique. Then at one point in my drive I had to drive back on a busy, high-speed stretch, so I accelerated up to 55 and put on my cruise control to not be annoying in traffic to others behind me by slowing down (I think that major thoroughfares are rather organic in that they exhibit a singular character or behavior that is the sum result of the mass-consciousness (or unconsciousness) of its individual drivers at any given time. Drivers who won't keep up with "the flow" -- even when it is somewhat above the posted speed -- can be very dangerous. Even though they are moving, I think of them as obstructions rather like a big boulder in a stream.

So, there I was using the "Cruise" control to keep up. When traffic slowed or forced me to hit the brakes, my cruise control went off and I had to hit "Resume" as the traffic speed picked up. Just then, the idea hit me. I couldn't wait to try my new bit of inspiration. I got off the thoroughfare and started driving a method that was rather like Pulse-and-Glide but it contained the "Just-put-it-on-Cruise-and-forget-it" thinking that also prevails with some posters here. Recently in another post, I was trying to find out if the record was set by coasting in Neutral at times, but there was no mention of this. Coincidentally, this method that I will suggest will require using Neutral for about 2-seconds, max during each cycle.

I am calling it The "Pulse-Cruise/Neutral-Drive-Glide/Resume" Method because that is an accurate statement of the steps I taught myself to use as I proceeded. I got onto a stretch of not very busy city driving, you know the roads in the city that have painted yellow lines and are posted at 40 miles per hour. I drive streets like this in my commute everyday. I took the vehicle up to 40 mph, just as I had been doing in my Pulse-and-Glide tests earlier, today. Only now, I introduced a change. When I got up to 40 mph, I set the cruise control so it would remember I want to come back to 40 each time, whenever I can (this is the "Pulse-Cruise" part of my technique. Upon reaching 40 mph and having set the cruise, in one movement, I took my foot off the gas, clicked the shift lever over into Neutral just long enough to make the "N" register on the dash, and then dropped it into drive to begin by deceleration back down to 30 mph as recommended. This is the "Neutral-Drive-Glide" part of my technique. It was important to go to Neutral for about 1-2 seconds to stop the cruise control temporarily until the car bottomed out at 30. Leaving it in drive kept the cruise engaged and I wanted cruise off and on again without having to go through the tedious setting of cruise controls over and over. The final part of my technique is to tap up the "Resume" setting on the cruise lever to begin my very steady (better than I could do with my foot) acceleration back up to 40 mph again in the "Pulse-Cruise" phase as the cycle begins a repeat.

The preliminary results for this were so immediately rewarding that I had to come home to post this. I had no bars in my consumption record that was ever below 55 mpg. I had several intervals that were 75 and even had some 5 minute intervals that were pegged at 100 mpg. I surprised myself. I'm a newby, my car is brand new (it had 3 miles on it on Presidents Days); it is now on its second tank of gas, it is still in its breaking in period, outside temperatures were in the 40s F. and I was getting results like this!

I am a little verbose, here, perhaps, but I thought it warranted a clear explanation. Would some veterans please drop what you are doing, and go give this a try. Like I said, I haven't' seen this method as I outlined it or I would just sit on my hands.

BTW: Someone may say that this method is unsafe and requires too much attention away from the road. I admit I had to practically talk to myself to go through the routine, but it really wasn't any more difficult than learning to drive with a stick-shift was when I was a teenager. It does not require you to look at the screen as it in the Pulse-Glide method in which the record was set. It is very engaging, too, since, you feel more like you are really driving, again.

The Lone Ranger
Rides, Again!

ADDENDUM: I just got back from another test drive. This time I reset the whole shebang to see how I was doing in an isolated period of time. One more hour. This time I drove many different paths. I was never under 55 mpg in the columns, often way above. I would add something here that I didn't mention above. I believe this can be used in most city or country driving. Here's what I would add: It works well for other speeds also, not just 40 to 30 mph. No matter what the posted speed, set your top speed in the cruise at this or just a couple miles above it, since most patrolmen have a small tolerance above. Use the outlined method above. Let your speed drop to other tolerable levels, then hit the resume. I have found that you hit the shift into Neutral just long enough to light the "N." You can feel it, then put it back into drive. I have used this going around curves and turning corners. I wish Toyota had this fixed to the column so that you would not have to feel for the cruise around the turning wheel. I even went back to the freeway. I set 65 tops and let myself drop back to 55. That worked, too. If cars in front of you slow down, just hit it into Neutral and Drive and let up on the gas. Hit resume as soon as you can. The cruise control "resume" works as slow as 25 mph, so one could probably use this technique to drive at all speeds above 25. 42 mph seems to be a magic number for the Prius, so it might be good to set this for all around town travel between 42 and 25. Drop down to other speeds besides 30, hit resume when you can or to keep up in traffic. I tried all different speeds and roads and still kept at 55 mpg or above. There were hills involved at times, too.

[DFWPrius]

shifting to N and back to D is cycling your shifter more times in 2 miles then most dirvers do in a day.

I can drive with no load on the engine or the M/G just by using a very light foot pressure, just enough to keep it out of Regen and a bit less then what is needed to run off the battery.

As to your shifting, remember the computer keeps track of all inputs, shifting power settings and such.
If something goes wrong and you take it in for warrenty work, the first thing the shop will do is download the
computer.

[douglas001001]

Just curious why you are going into neutral instead of just cancelling cc (pull cc lever), then glide then resume? I was able to go into ws going 55 with cc set after hitting cancel then hit resume after ws glide down to 45. I tried that this morning after reading your idea last night.

[efusco]

Gotta agree, I completely don't see the point of using neutral here and think it could 1)be potentially dangerous, and 2)reduce the effectiveness of the technique...the reason being that if the ICE is still on when you go into neutral it will stay on until you go into drive...then you're at the mercy of the car as to whether it goes into stealth or not.

I rarely use CC at those speeds any more to avoid any issues of it 'taking over' and aggressively accelerating. When I do use it I just cancel CC by pulling the stalk forward.

[Mister Swigart]

Ok. I admit, that before I'm done with this method, I may be calling it Pulse-Cruise/Footbrake-Glide/Resume.

I'm a little surprised that the responses to this have been so negative so far. I was very excited by my results. In my first post I tried to explain as carefully as I could all whys and wherefores. Permit me to try again:

First, why Neutral? Well, I did not want to shift to Neutral (let alone stay in Neutral). It would be great to have the cruise control modified so that you could take it off but have it remember the speed you had it set for, then when you take it off cruise momentarily, you would not have to set it all over again. I would love it if Toyota would make such a cruise control modification, but it's not there (unless I'm missing something in my Manual). I used Neutral and not the foot-brake to discontinue a cruise period, because hitting the brake at street speeds of 25 to 42, I felt, would break the momentum I wanted for the Glide portion of the cycle. I discovered that a gentle 1-2 second tap to Neutral would achieve the desired effect without hitting the footbrake; The desired effect being that I would be able to "Resume" my cruise setting without having to go to all the trouble and distraction of watching the speedometer, raising up to the threshold again, and then setting the cruise. I might just as well not try to induce the Cruise idea if I were to do that. The reason I want to have the Cruise option on at all times is so that I don't have to watch screens, speedometers, and make settings during the driving. I was more concerned about safety than the responses, here, realize. Now, that must be clear. In selecting Neutral I did not feel that it put an undue or even undesired strain on the shifter as it had a nice smooth "feel" to its execution. (But I will reconsider this.)

Next, any response to what I'm tying to achieve here must be understood to grow out of the ideas from Pulse & Glide or Hypermiling. I was not interested in adding on batteries as some have done to avoid the engine from kicking in. I just want to use the Prius for what its worth and with what its got. So, to make sure we are all on the same page I am including a few links that were presented to me here at the Forum during my inquiries about "optimum speeds" for the Prius. I will have to assume that the responders will be familiar with this, too:

http://hybridcars.about.com/od/owner...seandglide.htm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05220/550484.stm
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1224
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6080301215.html
http://www.toyota.com/html/hybridsynergyvi.../fall/mpgs.html
http://www.toyota.com/html/hybridsynergyvi...l/marathon.html

In one article it said,
Hypermileage techniques are not for everyday driving. They have to be practiced in controlled conditions and then become "second nature" because of the attention that must be paid to the dashboard display

Well, I spent the better part of one day just driving to see what they were talking about. That phrase "not for everyday driving" was something I could agree with, but what knowledge can you walk away with that you can apply to "everyday driving?" I found that the ideas might be put to "everyday" use and that it wasn't too hard to discipline yourself to do it.

Now, this business of hardship on the shifter and the blackbox telling on me and throwing the warranty out the window, may have some influence on my method, but the idea is still sound, I believe. I am not afraid of the Cruise control racing or sticking or anything like that, either. I find that you can use it in busy traffic, keeping your distance, around city driving including freeways and other major thoroughfares. You don't want to do this while you are talking on your cell phone. But I do believe that talking on the cell phone is a far more dangerous practice than what I'm proposing.

Finally, your posts have not gone unheeded. I will use the rest of this week in my actual commutes to experiment with the alternative Pulse-Cruise/Footbrake-Glide/Resume Method I am left with. I will try to develop a short, quick tap of the footbrake to disengage the Cruise with the minimum loss of momentum to begin my descending velocity. The added bonus to this is that the rear brake light will come on to let the car behind me know that I'm slowing down. (I will just pretend to be looking for a street adress, each time ;^) I do).

I was hoping to get more interest from the PC Forum and to get some others to try what I'm suggesting and have already found provides great results in "everyday driving." Please read the articles and give it a try. So Pulse-Cruise/Footbrake-Glide/Resume here I come as

The Lone Ranger
Rides Again!

[orangeblood]

Hey Lone Ranger, thanks for the very interesting idea.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Lone Ranger @ Mar 6 2007, 01:04 AM) [snapback]400682[/snapback]</div>

It would be great to have the cruise control modified so that you could take it off but have it remember the speed you had it set for, then when you take it off cruise momentarily, you would not have to set it all over again. [/b]

I don't understand this part. In my 2005, I just pull back on the cruise control stick and it disengages CC. It remembers the speed, all I need is to "resume" to get back to speed.

Another part of this that I wanted to clarify is your definition of glide. Just wanted to make sure you know you should be gliding without any regen taking place (so it amounts to the car being in neutral, though you don't actually have it in neutral). I think you know this, but with the talk of being in "N" for a brief second or two, I wasn't sure if you were coming out of that still in a proper "glide."

Anyway, your results sound fantastic, and I'm interested in hearing more from you on this.

Thanks!

[Mister Swigart]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(orangeblood @ Mar 5 2007, 10:08 PM) [snapback]400733[/snapback]</div>

Hey Lone Ranger, thanks for the very interesting idea.
I don't understand this part. In my 2005, I just pull back on the cruise control stick and it disengages CC. It remembers the speed, all I need is to "resume" to get back to speed.

Another part of this that I wanted to clarify is your definition of glide. Just wanted to make sure you know you should be gliding without any regen taking place (so it amounts to the car being in neutral, though you don't actually have it in neutral). I think you know this, but with the talk of being in "N" for a brief second or two, I wasn't sure if you were coming out of that still in a proper "glide."

Anyway, your results sound fantastic, and I'm interested in hearing more from you on this.

Thanks!
[/b]

I'm interested in hearing back from others who will give it a try. Now that memory I'm talking about is on the cruise control as long as it is "On" (on the 2007 it is on the end of the short stick attached to the steering wheel. I want to avoid turning the Cruise control "Off" because it does not remember and must be reset. So, that's where the "Neutral" (in the first example) OR the "Footbrake" in the revised method come in. They take you off the cruise speed without actually turning cruise control truly off, thereby maintaining its capability to return or "Resume" speed. If there is another setting that can accomplish this, I don't know about it; it would sure make it sweet if there is. It's late and I will look into this again, tomorrow.

If there is a way to disengage from the cruise speed to allow the descent to the lower threshold and yet resume, all this business of Neutral or Footbrake would be unnecessary. I will feel like the lumberjack who trades in his ax for a chainsaw, has difficulty with it cutting trees, returns it with a complaint to the vendor, who starts it up to see what is wrong with it, only to have the Lumberjack say, "Huh? What's that noise?"
Old joke, but I could be missing something.

I need another long day with this to check for generative, regenerative, and off phases. It would be ideal to get some pictures of the screen in its typical modes during each phase of the cycle. If what I am calling "Glide" happens to be regenerating charge to the battery and I'm still getting these high mpg results wouldn't that be better than not generating any charge to the battery? So far, I'm never below 2 bars (at the top in white) on my battery's discharge. That's better than what I think you'll get when their is absolutely no regeneration. So, I will look into this to see if I'm using the word "Glide" offhandedly, too. Still, the results are very good.

TLR

[TheForce]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Lone Ranger @ Mar 6 2007, 02:14 AM) [snapback]400767[/snapback]</div>

If there is a way to disengage from the cruise speed to allow the descent to the lower threshold and yet resume, all this business of Neutral or Footbrake would be unnecessary. I will feel like the lumberjack who trades in his ax for a chainsaw, has difficulty with it cutting trees, returns it with a complaint to the vendor, who starts it up to see what is wrong with it, only to have the Lumberjack say, "Huh? What's that noise?"
Old joke, but I could be missing something.
TLR
[/b]

I tried your method the other night just to see what would happen but I canceled the cruse control early when I seen that it revved up the engine over 2400rpm. I'm trying to keep it below 2400rpm this tank to see what my results are.

Any way I dont see why you need to be going into neutral. When you have the cruse control on you set it by pushing down on the stick. To cancel you pull back on the stick just like you would to flash your lights at someone. To resume speed as long as you havnt gone below 25mph ( I think 25mph and below is when it forgets your set speed ) you will press up on the stick and this will get you to your set speed. I think cruse control is too aggressive.

[tripp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theforce @ Mar 6 2007, 12:23 AM) [snapback]400768[/snapback]</div>

I think cruse control is too aggressive.
[/b]

That's been my experience. I have a short (~5mi) commute on mostly divided hwy but there are several lights (including 2 new, dreadful ones that piss me off to no end <_< ) over pretty hilly terrain. I can't use CC effectively at all on my commute do to the above conditions and in my experience the CC tends to be pretty aggro. It makes some sense due to the hills in the area but since the car can't look ahead and anticipate conditions I think it tends to over do it.

[JimboK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Lone Ranger @ Mar 5 2007, 11:04 PM) [snapback]400682[/snapback]</div>

I'm a little surprised that the responses to this have been so negative so far. I was very excited by my results. [/b]

I think it's terrific that you're so pumped about the prospect of optimal fuel economy. It took me awhile to get to focus on that, so in that regard you're a much faster learner than me. Frankly, I didn't know what I didn't know until after I'd hung out here and on similar forums for months.

I wouldn't term responses to your posts negative. Consider that many here have been driving the Prius and, in a few cases, actually studying best driving practices objectively, for years. The collective experience is immense. Odds are, they've been there, done that.

Good luck with your hypermiling!