"N" Mode and Glide

gazz · 03-18-2007, 07:32 AM

I have read a lot on P&G but was wondering how the "N" mode compares to the glide. I do not like taking my current car out of gear and putting it into natural but I can get massive improvements. Does the "N" do the same a gliding on very light throttle?

By the way had a Prius on test for 5 days and love it, now have one on order so cannot try this out yet.

John in LB · 03-18-2007, 07:41 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ Mar 18 2007, 04:32 AM) [snapback]407823[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I have read a lot on P&G but was wondering how the "N" mode compares to the glide. I do not like taking my current car out of gear and putting it into natural but I can get massive improvements. Does the "N" do the same a gliding on very light throttle?

By the way had a Prius on test for 5 days and love it, now have one on order so cannot try this out yet.
[/b]

Search for this topic as it has been discussed previously. However, for the Prius in particular, Neutral is not the same as Glide. Neutral prevents any regenerative charging, even if the IC engine is running; whereas, gliding keeps the system engaged. As a rule, do not use N.

In a regular car, the rules about not being in Neutral are outdated and were based on runaway cars and brake failures. If you know what you are doing, and understand all of the implications of being in neutral - then there is no technical reason why you can't put your car in neutral - And yes, you will improve your gas mileage in that way.

gazz · 03-18-2007, 04:24 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 18 2007, 07:41 AM) [snapback]407825[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Search for this topic as it has been discussed previously. However, for the Prius in particular, Neutral is not the same as Glide. Neutral prevents any regenerative charging, even if the IC engine is running; whereas, gliding keeps the system engaged. As a rule, do not use N.

In a regular car, the rules about not being in Neutral are outdated and were based on runaway cars and brake failures. If you know what you are doing, and understand all of the implications of being in neutral - then there is no technical reason why you can't put your car in neutral - And yes, you will improve your gas mileage in that way.
[/b]

Thanks for that, I have tried to track down what happens in neutral at speed but cannot find it, There is no regen so no drag? but what is the ICE doing?

KMO · 03-18-2007, 04:31 PM

The engine's either idling or off. It's providing no motive force or drag though, because MG1 is freewheeling, so it's got nothing to push against.

**TonyPSchaefer** · 03-18-2007, 11:02 PM

Yeah, what KMO said. I have used [N] in winter months when the ICE refuses to turn off. When coasting at speed, I receive a good mileage number. But as I slow, my mileage drops because the ICE is idling and my speed is falling.

And John's right about the regen. Again, using [N] to simulate a glide, I always try to slip back into [P] when I'm approaching a stop. Basically, recharging the battery on a speed-decrease situation is free energy, plain and simple. Keeping the car in [N] and applying the friction brakes is just silly.

bwilson4web · 03-18-2007, 11:30 PM

With my NHW11 03 Prius, I've found that using "N" for glide is effective for the initial MPG. Even going down a gentle slope, "N" give higher MPG than "D." Once the ICE warms up, this effect disappears.

Bob Wilson

briantompo · 03-24-2007, 11:47 PM

"Does the "N" do the same a gliding on very light throttle?"
Gazz,
Nope, not for me...using very light throttle on the highway with MFD showing only yellow arrows from battery to wheels (warp stealth) I get about 130-160 mpg as speed slowly decreases for 1/2 mile. Same conditions except shift to "N" and mileage shows 270-300 mpg. In both cases the engine idles around 1000 RPM and fuel consumption is .2 gal/hr.

If you warp stealth in "D" there's a sweet spot in the pedal that yields the same 270-300 mileage as "N". After 20K miles in a '05 I still can't maintain that spot for more than a second. I can find "N" every time.

I have read on this forum that prolonged coasting in "N" is not advised due to lubrication issues. We'll see...

Brian

ken1784 · 03-25-2007, 12:52 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(briantompo @ Mar 25 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]411745[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I get about 130-160 mpg as speed slowly decreases for 1/2 mile. Same conditions except shift to "N" and mileage shows 270-300 mpg. In both cases the engine idles around 1000 RPM and fuel consumption is .2 gal/hr.
[/b]

I believe your mpg number is from Scangauge.
My bet is Scangauge does not show correct mpg number on such conditions.

Ken@Japan

briantompo · 03-26-2007, 01:11 AM

[quote]
I believe your mpg number is from Scangauge.
My bet is Scangauge does not show correct mpg number on such conditions.

Ken, I'll buy that explanation. I paid closer attention tonight and idle fuel consumption is .3 gal/hr while feathering the pedal and .2 gal/hr when coasting in "N". Idle is about 1100 RPM for both conditions. Brian

Betelgeuse · 03-26-2007, 12:15 PM

While I agree with John's point about rules about not being in Neutral being outdated, I will just point out that in many (or all) of the US states, it is illegal to drive in neutral. I don't know what the rules are in the UK.

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03-18-2007, 07:32 AM	#1
gazz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coventry, UK Posts: 173 My Car: 2007 Prius Package: T4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I have read a lot on P&G but was wondering how the "N" mode compares to the glide. I do not like taking my current car out of gear and putting it into natural but I can get massive improvements. Does the "N" do the same a gliding on very light throttle? By the way had a Prius on test for 5 days and love it, now have one on order so cannot try this out yet.

03-18-2007, 04:31 PM	#4
KMO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 912 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: T Spirit Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	The engine's either idling or off. It's providing no motive force or drag though, because MG1 is freewheeling, so it's got nothing to push against.

03-18-2007, 11:02 PM	#5
TonyPSchaefer Ruler of Omicron Persei 8 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Far-North Chicagoland Posts: 8,644 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 4 Times in 2 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 18	Yeah, what KMO said. I have used [N] in winter months when the ICE refuses to turn off. When coasting at speed, I receive a good mileage number. But as I slow, my mileage drops because the ICE is idling and my speed is falling. And John's right about the regen. Again, using [N] to simulate a glide, I always try to slip back into [P] when I'm approaching a stop. Basically, recharging the battery on a speed-decrease situation is free energy, plain and simple. Keeping the car in [N] and applying the friction brakes is just silly.

03-18-2007, 11:30 PM	#6
bwilson4web Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North Alabama Posts: 1,823 My Car: 2003 Prius Package: #1 Nominated 2 Times in 2 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 9	With my NHW11 03 Prius, I've found that using "N" for glide is effective for the initial MPG. Even going down a gentle slope, "N" give higher MPG than "D." Once the ICE warms up, this effect disappears. Bob Wilson

03-24-2007, 11:47 PM	#7
briantompo Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 4 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	"Does the "N" do the same a gliding on very light throttle?" Gazz, Nope, not for me...using very light throttle on the highway with MFD showing only yellow arrows from battery to wheels (warp stealth) I get about 130-160 mpg as speed slowly decreases for 1/2 mile. Same conditions except shift to "N" and mileage shows 270-300 mpg. In both cases the engine idles around 1000 RPM and fuel consumption is .2 gal/hr. If you warp stealth in "D" there's a sweet spot in the pedal that yields the same 270-300 mileage as "N". After 20K miles in a '05 I still can't maintain that spot for more than a second. I can find "N" every time. I have read on this forum that prolonged coasting in "N" is not advised due to lubrication issues. We'll see... Brian

03-26-2007, 01:11 AM	#9
briantompo Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 4 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	[quote] I believe your mpg number is from Scangauge. My bet is Scangauge does not show correct mpg number on such conditions. Ken, I'll buy that explanation. I paid closer attention tonight and idle fuel consumption is .3 gal/hr while feathering the pedal and .2 gal/hr when coasting in "N". Idle is about 1100 RPM for both conditions. Brian

03-26-2007, 12:15 PM	#10
Betelgeuse Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Northampton, MA, USA Posts: 1,343 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: #3 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	While I agree with John's point about rules about not being in Neutral being outdated, I will just point out that in many (or all) of the US states, it is illegal to drive in neutral. I don't know what the rules are in the UK.