Do I have a lemon HSD?

[rufaro]

About two weeks ago, I left my '06 package 3 at a body shop for repairs (cosmetic, basically), and got a base model '07 as my rental. My car has about 26k on the odo, the rental has not quite 8k.

It is only in the last 10k or so on mine that I show about 44mpg at best. No, at best, it was close to 46 for the first 4k of the 10. It's been dropping since (per the computer that I reset at the beginning of the run and have not reset since--tanks have varied, but overall it has been dropping). (This was with an 8k round trip cross country run.) Generally, I've been lucky to get 40mpg. Apart from my two x-country runs, my usage on any given day is less than 10 miles. I have put about 340 miles on the rental and am driving as I usually do (without cross country, but with a couple of longer runs in between--as normal). My '06, without the last x-country, has trouble getting 40mpg, and the 45.6 it had, about 6k miles ago, is dropping like a rock. The rental is showing, per computer since I picked it up, about 46mpg, with no effort on my part whatsoever.

I replaced the OEM tires on mine at less than 4k miles (rental has, obviously, OEM tires). My tires are "stickier" Michelin HydroEdge, that I keep inflated to 42 front and 40 rear. I THOUGHT others had replaced their tires and were getting better mileage. No...I MUST believe that, as I wasn't getting better mileage even before I replaced the tires. I can't think of anything else that I could have changed that could affect this as it seems to be affected. I KNOW there is something different going on between my '06 and the rental '07, given that one of my main runs is about a two mile round trip, where MY car mostly loses at least a tenth of a mile mpg (even on ONE run, on 10k computer) and the rental stays the same (on one run on 300 mile computer).

Should I put back the original tires or just stfu?

Or, when I take the car in for its 30k, tell the dealer there is something that they need to adjust? (If the latter--WHAT???)

[JimboK]

I recently replaced the OEM tires with Hydroedges. I estimated a 5-10% fuel mileage hit with them originally, some (not all) of which I have probably regained after their breakin. As one who obsesses about fuel economy, the loss has been frustrating at times. But not enough to put Integritys back on; their poor tread life and inferior handling don't justify it, IMHO.

Not sure what else could be at work here, if anything. As you know, there are many variables that affect fuel economy: routes, terrain, weather, driving time, speeds, technique ... as well as the vehicle. Brainstorm a bit and ask yourself what else could be different. The longer runs, for example, could be contributors. Don't underestimate the effect of winds. Even small differences in wind conditions can have a significant impact on FE.

[firepa63]

Check your oil level. If it was overfilled at the last oil chage, you will also take a mileage hit. It happened to me twice and the reduction was almost 5 MPG. I try to keep mine just below the full mark. However, when dealers replace the oil, you may find the level about 1/4" over the full mark.

[Pinto Girl]

Well, let's see...

I think we're getting oxygenated gas now in Northern CA, which does drop mileage in the winters, but that's only seasonal.

Things to consider:
*tire pressure
*type of tire and, especially, how heavy it is
*did you replace with the same size, or go up to 195's?
*oil level
*alignment (I've heard this can be a big one)
*short trips really kill mileage in any car, even the Prius

But, gosh, those HydroEdges in the stock size, are only 2lbs heavier, each, than the Integrities (19lbs. vs 17lbs.) That's I guess that's something like 10%, but, still...

I bought bigger, stickier performance tires for my Prius and am discovering that the initial acceleration (like when the stoplight first turns green) isn't quite as brisk, so I'm giving it more gas to get it rolling. I wonder if that's what's going on in your case...?

-------

Random thought: I wonder if, really, a disproportionate percentage of the Prius' economy advantage is as simple as the fact that it's rather under-tired (especially the non-Touring edition)...?

Put more conventional tires on it, and it's surprising how quickly the excellent mileage begins to erode.

[andyprius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rufaro @ Oct 29 2007, 06:31 AM) [snapback]531893[/snapback]</div>

About two weeks ago, I left my '06 package 3 at a body shop for repairs (cosmetic, basically), and got a base model '07 as my rental. My car has about 26k on the odo, the rental has not quite 8k.

It is only in the last 10k or so on mine that I show about 44mpg at best. No, at best, it was close to 46 for the first 4k of the 10. It's been dropping since (per the computer that I reset at the beginning of the run and have not reset since--tanks have varied, but overall it has been dropping). (This was with an 8k round trip cross country run.) Generally, I've been lucky to get 40mpg. Apart from my two x-country runs, my usage on any given day is less than 10 miles. I have put about 340 miles on the rental and am driving as I usually do (without cross country, but with a couple of longer runs in between--as normal). My '06, without the last x-country, has trouble getting 40mpg, and the 45.6 it had, about 6k miles ago, is dropping like a rock. The rental is showing, per computer since I picked it up, about 46mpg, with no effort on my part whatsoever.

I replaced the OEM tires on mine at less than 4k miles (rental has, obviously, OEM tires). My tires are "stickier" Michelin HydroEdge, that I keep inflated to 42 front and 40 rear. I THOUGHT others had replaced their tires and were getting better mileage. No...I MUST believe that, as I wasn't getting better mileage even before I replaced the tires. I can't think of anything else that I could have changed that could affect this as it seems to be affected. I KNOW there is something different going on between my '06 and the rental '07, given that one of my main runs is about a two mile round trip, where MY car mostly loses at least a tenth of a mile mpg (even on ONE run, on 10k computer) and the rental stays the same (on one run on 300 mile computer).

Should I put back the original tires or just stfu?

Or, when I take the car in for its 30k, tell the dealer there is something that they need to adjust? (If the latter--WHAT???)
[/b]

[psikot]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rufaro @ Oct 29 2007, 06:31 AM) [snapback]531893[/snapback]</div>

About two weeks ago, I left my '06 package 3 at a body shop for repairs (cosmetic, basically), and got a base model '07 as my rental. My car has about 26k on the odo, the rental has not quite 8k.

It is only in the last 10k or so on mine that I show about 44mpg at best. No, at best, it was close to 46 for the first 4k of the 10. It's been dropping since (per the computer that I reset at the beginning of the run and have not reset since--tanks have varied, but overall it has been dropping). (This was with an 8k round trip cross country run.) Generally, I've been lucky to get 40mpg. Apart from my two x-country runs, my usage on any given day is less than 10 miles. I have put about 340 miles on the rental and am driving as I usually do (without cross country, but with a couple of longer runs in between--as normal). My '06, without the last x-country, has trouble getting 40mpg, and the 45.6 it had, about 6k miles ago, is dropping like a rock. The rental is showing, per computer since I picked it up, about 46mpg, with no effort on my part whatsoever.

I replaced the OEM tires on mine at less than 4k miles (rental has, obviously, OEM tires). My tires are "stickier" Michelin HydroEdge, that I keep inflated to 42 front and 40 rear. I THOUGHT others had replaced their tires and were getting better mileage. No...I MUST believe that, as I wasn't getting better mileage even before I replaced the tires. I can't think of anything else that I could have changed that could affect this as it seems to be affected. I KNOW there is something different going on between my '06 and the rental '07, given that one of my main runs is about a two mile round trip, where MY car mostly loses at least a tenth of a mile mpg (even on ONE run, on 10k computer) and the rental stays the same (on one run on 300 mile computer).

Should I put back the original tires or just stfu?

Or, when I take the car in for its 30k, tell the dealer there is something that they need to adjust? (If the latter--WHAT???)
[/b]

any tires that "grip" more, lower mpg. physics the more a tire slips the less gas it takes to move the car at speed. your car will handle better and spend more fuel fighting momentum because they grip. also maybe cold weather, short trips and not reseting the consumption screen.

[IsrAmeriPrius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rufaro @ Oct 29 2007, 04:31 AM) [snapback]531893[/snapback]</div>

About two weeks ago, I left my '06 package 3 at a body shop for repairs...

...my usage on any given day is less than 10 miles. I have put about 340 miles on the rental...[/b]

It seems as if you drive the rental an average of 25 miles per day as opposed to the 10 a day that you drive your own car. The rental spends considerably fewer miles warming up to operating temperatures. That, and the tires, should account for most of the difference.

[donee]

Hi Rufaro,

Hate to ask this. But did the bodywork require any re-painitng? Does the body shop have a lamp room used to set the paint? Did they put your car in there without removing the battery first ? This is required to avoid premature aging of the battery.

Check everything else first. Rear Brakes especially. This is done by putting the car on a lift and rotating the rear tires. They should rotate around at least once, probably twice with a good push. If the stop right away after being pushed, something is wrong.

I have been over 58 mpg all summer on 185/65R-15 Hydroedges that had at least 7 K miles on them at the beginning of the summer. I had two tanks over 60 mpg. This is commuting, a distance of 23 miles at a time in all sorts of summer weather, plus stop and go trips on the weekends for errands of much shorter distance.

[Pinto Girl]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 29 2007, 07:56 PM) [snapback]532207[/snapback]</div>

Hi Rufaro,

Hate to ask this. But did the bodywork require any re-painitng? Does the body shop have a lamp room used to set the paint? Did they put your car in there without removing the battery first ? This is required to avoid premature aging of the battery.

Check everything else first. Rear Brakes especially. This is done by putting the car on a lift and rotating the rear tires. They should rotate around at least once, probably twice with a good push. If the stop right away after being pushed, something is wrong.

[/b]

You're brilliant! What great questions!
:-)

[rufaro]

ALL great tips, gang--thanks!

I've been running with 42 front/40 rear pressure, and the BEST mileage over distance was on the roadtrip this summer, with the car loaded to within an inch of its life, with 2 passengers--taking the kid from NoCa to Montreal for school...THEN, on the way back, with 1 passenger and an average kinda load, the mileage started dropping. I haven't reset the computer since the beginning of that trip, approx 10k miles ago...But I DID have the oil changed shortly after I started the return trip...

I did put the HydroEdges on at less than 4k, and was showing crappy mileage, but there's that learning curve thing--that 1st 4k took about 6 months.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 29 2007, 05:56 PM) [snapback]532207[/snapback]</div>

Hi Rufaro,

Hate to ask this. But did the bodywork require any re-painitng? Does the body shop have a lamp room used to set the paint? Did they put your car in there without removing the battery first ? This is required to avoid premature aging of the battery.

Check everything else first. Rear Brakes especially. This is done by putting the car on a lift and rotating the rear tires. They should rotate around at least once, probably twice with a good push. If the stop right away after being pushed, something is wrong.

I have been over 58 mpg all summer on 185/65R-15 Hydroedges that had at least 7 K miles on them at the beginning of the summer. I had two tanks over 60 mpg. This is commuting, a distance of 23 miles at a time in all sorts of summer weather, plus stop and go trips on the weekends for errands of much shorter distance.

[/b]

The whole car was repainted (except for the front bumper which was replaced.) I've not got a clue about the lamp/battery issue--guess I'll find out tomorrow when I pick it up and see if I have to reset all may radio and satellite stations.

Next thing'll be to find somewhere to lift the car and check the tire rotations...which I suppose I can try the next time I get the tires rotated!