Toyota "WS" Lifetime ATF

[The Critic]

Hi, I'm new around here, but I found out something interesting today so I joined this forum to pass it along to you folks.

I know that this is the only recommended ATF for the Prius.

I was curious about the Toyota World Standard "WS" Lifetime ATF, so I e-mailed the Toyota dealer today to check on the price of it:

Michael,
The World Standard ATF(part # 08886-02305) sells by the gallon for $41.60.  We do have it in stock so you can swing on by and pick some up if you need it.  Feel free to call or stop by if there is anything else we can help you with.  Thanks.

-Charles Linck
Elk Grove Toyota Parts
916-405-4700

IIRC, the Prius takes exactly 4.0 quarts for a drain/refill.

Thoughts?

Michael

[efusco]

Help me out here...what, exactly, are you passing along? Do you have a question? Why did you write to inquire in the first place?

I'm just confused as to why you're bringing this up...probably a good reason, but it's not stated in you post.

[ceric]

"World Standard lief-time ATF"? Is it used in the CVT of a Prius?
I hate my life-time ATF (auto transmission fluid) in my BMW. You know it is now dirty but the dealer refuse to change it for you. Worse yet, BMW don't sell you by gallons. It comes in 40-gallon units. So changing it yourself is out of the question also....

[The Critic]

Originally posted by efusco@Oct 28 2005, 04:46 PM
Help me out here...what, exactly, are you passing along?  Do you have a question?  Why did you write to inquire in the first place?

I'm just confused as to why you're bringing this up...probably a good reason, but it's not stated in you post.

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Sorry for the confusion, I was unclear in my first post.

I wrote to my Toyota dealer's parts dept. as I was curious about the pricing of this ATF since most lifetime ATFs from past experience have either been very difficult to obtain or very expensive (i.e. VW/Audi wants $20/L, BMW won't even sell it to you).

This fluid, the Toyota World Standard (WS) ATF, is the recommended ATF for the Prius. Since this is a board full of Prius members, I figured that I pass this along since it may be useful information to someone who would like to know the pricing of this fluid and to let others know that it actually isn't that expensive to change the ATF in their 2G Prius if they did it themselves.

Hope this clears up the confusion?

Michael

[The Critic]

Originally posted by ceric@Oct 28 2005, 04:58 PM
"World Standard lief-time ATF"? Is it used in the CVT of a Prius?
I hate my life-time ATF (auto transmission fluid) in my BMW. You know it is now dirty but the dealer refuse to change it for you. Worse yet, BMW don't sell you by gallons. It comes in 40-gallon units. So changing it yourself is out of the question also....

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Off Topic: What year and model is your BMW? The ones prior to 2005, at least the 3 series, used the Esso LT71141 ATF fluid. This fluid is also used by VW/Audi, and can be purchased on worldimpex.com for $15/L. A ATF pan drop, filter change, and fluid refill can cost about $60-$80 if one does it themselves.

Some of the newer BMWs now use the Texaco ETL 8072B ATF, as they use a GM transmission unit. I honestly have no clue why they used this fluid, as I e-mailed my friend who is an engineer for GM. He says that GM uses this same transmission in the Cadillac SRX and GM specs DexIII (actually Dex VI now since Apr. since GM will stop issuing DexIII licenses at the end of this year) and they consider it as lifetime fill.

Mike

[ceric]

It's a 98 BMW540iA. Yes, the auto tranny was from GM. I have tried to have my BMW dealers replace the ATF for me. They don't recommend it and didn't want to perform it. Private mechanics couldn't do it either because the ATF comes in a big barrel... After 70K miles, it seems OK but I would prefer the ATF to be changed. Some reported bad consequences (warning lights, etc) after they managed to replaced the ATF. Long story.

[jayman]

After some comments on the board about the color of the CVT fluid and the condition of the magnet on the drain plug, I changed mine out at around 14,000km. That was near the end of April.

The fluid came out VERY dark and the magnet had a lot of shavings. My local Toyota dealer sold me a 4 litre jug of WS for $42 Canadian. Oddly enough it comes in a tin can, not plastic like you'd expect.

I have a little pump rig that I used to use for filling outboard lower units. After carefully flushing it out, I used it to refill the CVT, it was a snap. The excess oil came out with I'd guess around 150ml still in the can.

I didn't notice any difference on the drive back to Winnipeg from the hobby farm, but driving around Winnipeg the car seemed a bit smoother and it would glide on electric longer.

I would hope the CVT isn't too hard on fluid. Certainly not enough to cause thickening by 14,000km.

I'm personally leery of any "lubed for life" fluid. What the manufacturer usually means is "lubed until it conks on you then YOU have to pay for a new one." Takes Planned Obsolesence to a new level.

[The Critic]

Originally posted by jayman@Oct 28 2005, 05:27 PM
After some comments on the board about the color of the CVT fluid and the condition of the magnet on the drain plug, I changed mine out at around 14,000km. That was near the end of April.

The fluid came out VERY dark and the magnet had a lot of shavings. My local Toyota dealer sold me a 4 litre jug of WS for $42 Canadian. Oddly enough it comes in a tin can, not plastic like you'd expect.

I have a little pump rig that I used to use for filling outboard lower units. After carefully flushing it out, I used it to refill the CVT, it was a snap. The excess oil came out with I'd guess around 150ml still in the can.

I didn't notice any difference on the drive back to Winnipeg from the hobby farm, but driving around Winnipeg the car seemed a bit smoother and it would glide on electric longer.

I would hope the CVT isn't too hard on fluid. Certainly not enough to cause thickening by 14,000km.

I'm personally leery of any "lubed for life" fluid. What the manufacturer usually means is "lubed until it conks on you then YOU have to pay for a new one." Takes Planned Obsolesence to a new level.

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I agree, which is why I wouldn't mind spending $40-$45 to drain/refill the "WS" ATF myself every 30,000 as preventive maintenance. People get charged $39.95 at the dealer for a drain/refill with the $5/qt Toyota T-IV anyway, so it actually costs exactly the same if you do the drain/refill with "WS" ATF yourself.

Michael

[rick57]

But you have to remember that the CVT in the Prius is not a normal trans. It doesn't have clutches doing the shifting like the 3,4,5 speeds of a conventional transmission. Mostly just a Planetery Gearset connecting to a final drive unit. So I wouldn't think there should be as much heat build-up compared to a shifting transmission to wear out the fluid.

[tochatihu]

Originally posted by jayman@Oct 28 2005, 04:27 PM
After some comments on the board about the color of the CVT fluid and the condition of the magnet on the drain plug, I changed mine out at around 14,000km. That was near the end of April...

Motivated by similar considerations as Jayman, I asked the Toyota servicer to change ATF in 2001 Prius at about 79k miles / 126k km. Also sprung for a new sump gasket because I wnted that little magnet inspected and cleaned.

I was not present, but this is the report I received from mechanics that I do trust. (approximate quote) "Fluid was clean and fresh in appearance. Magnet had a slight amount of metal that we cleaned off in 2 seconds. Now *why* did you spend $135 on this, again?".

I just wanted to know. Now I can ignore the thing for a long time. By the way, the classic Prius used Toyota T IV fluid, which is not exactly the same thing, I have recently been told.